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Title A name given to the resource Africatown Welcome Center sign Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nathan Carpenter Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Photograph Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2019 Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Photograph https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/2625039489ca07a8b76a1489be389e27.jpg 598231d1bd4e1a7a0182d5d399e28abe https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/2298f48d3239c3442d7d0da15595e49e.JPG cc4b0d47b49cb397e136af02943a406b https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/5cadd2049c499a4510d2fe55f04f9a21.JPG c1093327acec9f7f5aeabd7789259b35 https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/6ad69460667d3b90fe160eb50238b512.JPG 570d1f932ea1f507a972b811ea549ba3 https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/bf044ce338a2f64274a50adf078bdc0e.JPG 22909916bfcc935ef471b1af22ddf3db https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/300b8f3783159be610b955aac6578be0.JPG e4e686433927093fb93ff2cae605c3b9 https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/721f313761505a4e9d798b85367fe8d0.JPG d01e3c3410542b2e900144ff82fbeac0 https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/10a038213e50c177712f1d7d44c0a910.JPG 6f78fcc3c6943155b7d3d18554797e0c https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/b9276070676cb16be3dff3bbc7d7ccf2.JPG b8e63f21975106d4e6ab401ffcbbf8ee Still Image A static visual representation. 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Title A name given to the resource Africatown_Homepage_Image Description An account of the resource Homepage image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived https://cdn.rt.emap.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2022/08/08153911/shutterstock_1067675219-1600x1066.jpg Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Shutterstock https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/8c8412fdda95a3b876e18a0d8422be7e.JPG 4febbe6d658262bdb07f9ba046875a88 https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/3f69da901daa912353810d3666054844.JPG a416c9d1231869cc4659543b99d9a080 https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/703ed7329befc5ab5a0751472ad62c5f.JPG 7d260f8c8000c4193b38bdc9f284e7aa https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/73195243340a0b67996ca4f527787ad2.JPG 8ef09cd70981f4e60d82f8c031345506 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Africatown's Historic Shell Bayou Elks Lodge Description An account of the resource (Photo Taken 2019) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nathan Carpenter, Santi Roman https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/9de49a3b71030d7a64c6598403688b9a.jpg ed2b972d93388a4d6f249e8c5a851e48 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photo Physical Dimensions The actual physical size of the original image ‪4,032px by 3,024‬px Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Africatown's Hog Bayou Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Santiago Roman https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/77463d9f0cf94795613030bbc0aa5016.jpg 94bdc1185729ffaa80f3d4381d7560b9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Story Map Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource IT Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource IT Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Almuni Association Subject The topic of the resource Story Map Image https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/865fab203f0e6921ea9777ce063978db.jpeg e8a9305972989ceff9610d23db547725 Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Professor Janet Fiskio Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Mr. Anderson Flen OHMS Object This field contain the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file withing the OHMS Viewer). https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=Interview59850.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and/or Transcript and is what make the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka. 5.2 Anderson Flen Full Interview Africatown Oberlin College Library Mr. Anderson Flen Professor Janet Fiskio 1:|18(1)|30(13)|40(8)|55(4)|69(14)|79(11)|91(1)|106(12)|118(7)|131(6)|142(2)|157(1)|171(2)|181(12)|194(1)|215(2)|230(6)|249(11)|260(12)|271(7)|283(5)|297(12)|312(5)|325(10)|336(6)|347(8)|361(2)|374(10)|386(9)|399(10)|414(2)|426(9)|439(7)|451(14)|466(14)|478(14)|493(14)|504(9)|517(12)|533(9)|546(6)|558(7)|570(1)|582(3) 0 https://youtu.be/WEAeVeWaiqM YouTube video 60 Founding of Mobile County Training School (MCTS) Mobile County training school was founded in 1880, and the history that we have of it, it started, really, from the last slave ship--the descendants of the last slave ship that came to Africatown. Mr. Anderson Flen talks about the founding, values, and history of Mobile County Training School Africans ; Africatown ; Americans ; Clotilda ; County ; Enslaved ; Hog Bayou ; Last ; Magazine Point ; Mobile ; Pritchard ; School ; Ship ; Slave ; Training Founding of Mobile County Training School ; Values of Mobile County Training School 17 231 Five Well's of MCTS One of those core things that we benefited from, were the five 'wells'. And the five wells were: being well read, well spoken, well travelled, well balanced, well dressed. Mr. Flen talks about some of the values instilled in students by Mobile County Training School Five ; Well-Balanced ; Well-Dressed ; Well-Read ; Well-Spoken ; Well-Travelled ; Wells Five Wells ; Five Wells of Mobile County Training School ; MCTS Principles 17 370 Four P's of MCTS With that in mind, we have what I call the four 'p's. Those four 'p's are: purpose, planning, passion, and program outcome. Mr. Flen talks about the four Ps of Mobile County Training School and why they were important to his and others education. MCTS principles ; Outcome ; Passion ; Planning ; Program ; Purpose MCTS Principles 17 410 Three R's of MCTS We had what we would call the three 'R's. And the three 'R's were: respect, responsibility, and reward. And those three 'R's were really internal principles, that you looked inside of yourself to respect yourself first. Mr Flen finishes discussing the triumvirate of educational and ethical pillars of Mobile County Training School. Principles ; Respect ; Responsibility ; Reward ; Values Three Rs of Mobile County Training School ; Values of Mobile County Training Schools 17 478 History, Structure, and Uniqueness of MCTS We had a motto at Mobile County Training School, and that motto was just simply: &quot ; Each one, reach one, teach one, and never give up on anyone.&quot ; And so that was part of our process. Mr. Flen talks about a variety of historical details and values regarding Mobile County Training School Booker T. Washington ; County ; History ; Mobile ; Motto ; School ; Training ; Unique History of Mobile County Training School 17 657 Social Clubs, Organizations, and Dress Code of MCTS Dr. Baker instituted all the different social clubs and organizations on the campus. He started out with all the social clubs. Each social club had to have the four 'P's as a part of that organization. Just like all of the classrooms and organizations had to have the four 'P's as a part of that. Mr. Flen talks about the unique social educational climate of MCTS and the incredible student lead social clubs and organizations. big sisters ; Clubs ; community ; dress code ; Five Wells ; Four Ps ; marshalls ; Organizations ; Senate ; Social Organizations ; Social Clubs 17 1025 MCTS Junior Prom and Desegregation In 1967, which was my junior year in high school, a great number of things started happening in Mobile. Mobile is one of the last cities to really -- from a desegregation standpoint -- to really get engaged with desegregation. Mr. Anderson Flen talks about Mobile County Training School having its Prom, as the first black high school, at the Mobile Battle House Hotel post desegregation. Ballroom ; Battle-House ; Black ; Community ; Crystal ; Desegregation ; First ; Hotel ; March ; Martin Luther King ; political ; Prom First Black Prom in Desegregated Hotel 17 1200 Teachers at MCTS The teachers in Mobile Alabama Training School were just not teachers, they were family. Theres some stories that I would just like to share with you about how those teachers was really involved in our lives Mr. Flen talks about the unique involvement and passion of the teachers at Mobile County Training School and how they had a long lasting positive influence on the lives and success of the students. County ; Family ; Mobile ; School ; Teachers ; Training Mobile County Training School ; Roles of Teachers ; Teachers at Mobile County Training School 17 1835 Importance of Churches in Africatown Our churches did the same thing -- and just speaking a little bit about our churches -- Union Baptist church, which I think some of you visited, was where the school was started Mr. Flen talks about the pivotal role playing by churches in Africatown in terms of the founding and success of the community and its various schools. Africatown ; Baptist ; Black ; Church ; Community ; County ; First ; Founders ; Millionaire ; Mobile ; School ; Training ; Union ; Yorktown Churches in Africatown 17 1948 Africatown in the 20th Century So all of those pieces are a part of what make Mobile County Training School special. Mobile County Training School -- when you think about the Africatown community, we had at least twenty grocery stores out here, we had clubs, we had movie theaters, we had restaurants, we had pool rooms, we had pool rooms, we had hotels and motels, we had laundry mats, we were a self-contained community. Mr. Flen talks about how Africatown and Mobile County Training School in the 20th century. acredited ; Africatown ; Alabama ; black ; County ; first ; History ; Mobile ; School ; South ; Training History of Africatown 17 2257 MCTS and Africatown as a Sanctuary Everything that was done at Mobile County Training School was a celebration. It was a celebration because in the broader world, as we understood it and saw it, we were constantly being put down and denigrated by larger society. This was really a sanctuary for us. Mr. Anderson Flen talks about the importance of the impact of Mobile County Training School in mitigating the negative effects of segregation and racism on Black youth Africatown ; Celebration ; County ; Mobile ; Racism ; Sanctuary ; School ; Segregation ; Training Africatown Churches ; Mobile County Training School 17 2659 Extra Clips Mr. Flen has an additional conversation post formal interview 17 00:00Fiskio: Alright, this is Janet Fiskio from Oberlin College, I am here with Anderson Flen who is the president of the Mobile County training school alumni association and a graduate of the school. We are actually on the grounds of the school next to the bell, and I will do the first couple of questions, then I&#039 ; m going to be turning this over to Kerensa Loadholt and Nathan Carpenter who are students at Oberlin. Anderson, before we start, I&#039 ; d like to just get on tape that you have consented to be part of the Africatown digital archive project for this interview. Mr. Anderson Flen: That&#039 ; s correct, I have consented to be a part of this project--and look forward to it. Fiskio: Thank you. And, I would like to also point out that the copyright for this interview will remain with Mr. Flen. So anyone who wants to make use of this interview needs to get his permission. So Mr. Flen, actually the way I wanted to start out was asking you to tell us a little bit about the story of how this school was founded. 01:00 Mr. Flen: Mobile County training school was founded in 1880, and the history that we have of it, it started, really, from the last slave ship--the descendants of the last slave ship that came to Africatown. More precisely, they actually came to Magazine Point which is a part of the Africatown community. Africatown is made up of Mobile, Magazine Point, Prichard, Happy Hill, Hog Bayou, and a couple of other areas--Lewis Quarter. The school started at Union Baptist Church in Magazine Point. In 1880. It eventually started growing and they moved it to its current site around 1900, and the land that the school is situated on right now was donated by Jeff Jiles(Spell Check), a descendant of the Clotilda enslaved Africans who came from Africa on that last slave ship. 02:10 The school went from the first grade to the twelfth grade until around 1950. And after that, a second school--an elementary school was actually built across the street from the school called WhitleyElementary School, which was named after the first founder of Mobile County training school, Mr. Isaac Whitley. Prior to the school being named Mobile County Training school, it was called the Plateau Norman Industrial School for Coloreds. 02:57 And in 1950 Whitley elementary school was founded. The school was really built on the principles of the descendants from Africa or the original enslaved individuals who came from Africa. Mobile County Training School had some very, very strong principles that--I wanted to share some of those with you today. Fiskio: Yes. Mr. Flen: As I&#039 ; ve researched--and by the way, I&#039 ; m a 1968 graduate of Mobile County Training School--and as I&#039 ; ve researched Mobile County Training School and looked at its history, there were some real fundamental things that was put in place that I benefited from as an alumnus of Mobile County Training School. One of those core things that we benefited from, were the five &#039 ; wells&#039 ; . And the five wells were: being well read, well spoken, well travelled, well balanced, well dressed...did I get &#039 ; em all? *laugh* Sometimes I can&#039 ; t--sometimes I remember &#039 ; em quite differently and I&#039 ; m gonna go back over it one more time. Well spoken, well read, well dressed, well travelled, and well balanced. Fiskio: That&#039 ; s five. 04:16 Mr. Flen: The key with those five wells as I&#039 ; ve grown to realize is that they were put in place because of the circumstances and situations in which African Americans and African people in general in the United States--the issues that they had to face. I&#039 ; ve learned that the well balanced piece is one of probably the most important of the five wells because of the segregation and of the hostile environments that Blacks had to face. Being well balanced and really being a critical thinker to navigate our society for Blacks was very very important. 04:58 The other principles that were part of the Mobile County Training School system. Mobile County Training School was a student led campus. The campus was designed by which students would be in positions to actually lead this campus. For example, we had an elected body of students. We had a senate set up, we had the president of student body in government, every home room class from first grade to twelfth grade actually had a president of the class. Each one of those individuals were members of this senate body. The other thing that made this campus so unique and distinctive in terms of that process, that discipline and activities were planned by the student body in conjunction with the faculty and staff. 06:03 With that in mind, we have what I call the four &#039 ; p&#039 ; s. Those four &#039 ; p&#039 ; s are: purpose, planning, passion, and program outcome. And so that we stay focused--as an organization, as a school, and as students--on really making sure that whatever we did, that those four p&#039 ; s was a part of that process. The other thing that made Mobile County Training School so unique and special is that--and I&#039 ; m not sure if this was directly or indirectly instilled into us--I think it probably was both. We had what we would call the three &#039 ; R&#039 ; s. And the three &#039 ; R&#039 ; s were: respect, responsibility, and reward. And those three &#039 ; R&#039 ; s were really internal principles, that you looked inside of yourself to respect yourself first. That you looked inside of yourself to ask the question: &quot ; am I being as responsible and as responsive as I can be?&quot ; 07:10 And any reward that you got was internalized and therefore you did not need anyone on the outside to champion what you had done or not done. Because as we grew up in the South and in Alabama and across the nation, many times the Black community in particular was disenfranchised, and in many cases, was put down--either directly or indirectly with words and with products and services that were provided for and to us. Therefore, Mobile County Training School was really a haven to share with us how to be the best at all times. 07:47 We had a motto at Mobile County Training School, and that motto was just simply: &quot ; Each one, reach one, teach one, and never give up on anyone.&quot ; And so that was part of our process. We also had at Mobile County Training School, an oratorical contest. We were always talking about -- and getting back to those five wells. Every student, and every class, every year, had to learn (Indecipherable). And they said that (Indecipherable), that competition began to narrow down to the best and the brightest who could sell the point. At the end of this whole process, there was going to be one person selected who was the best orator in the school, but the process was so important because it taught and gave each individual an opportunity to be able to share and express themselves in an oral setting. This is part of the training that was taught at Mobile County Training School. And this training was instilled in every activity that we had in that process. Mobile County Training School--I was also fascinated because as I began to understand and learn this history, doctor Baker (Name Check) was a very unique individual. And what made him unique--he came to Mobile County Training School in 1926. Of course, in 1910, the school became a part of the public educational system. Prior to that--the thirty years prior to that--it was a private institution, pretty much self-sufficient on its own. By coming into the school system, in 1910, it began to get funding and moneys from the school in order to do a better job at equipping the things for the students and for the campus. 09:39 Isaac Whitley came in 1910 and they brought him in and he set a very very high standard. Isaac Whitley was a descendant of Booker T. Washington. Even though he went to Hampton Institute, he was from Franklin County, Alabama and was brought to Mobile County Training School to be the principal because of his outstanding educational history and also having been a descendant of Booker T. Washington. 10:06 I think part of his coming here may have been attributed to Booker T. Washington because Booker T. Washington visited this campus many times in his lifetime. And in fact, it is said, one of the last places that he visited before his death in 1915 was the campus of Mobile County Training School. Also, Mr. Whitley died in 1921--around &#039 ; 21, &#039 ; 22. Dr. Baker came here in 1926, and when Dr. Baker came here, he took the school to a whole &#039 ; nother level. Off of the foundation in which Mr. Whitley had built. Dr. Baker instituted all the different social clubs and organizations on the campus. He started out with all the social clubs. Each social club had to have the four &#039 ; P&#039 ; s as a part of that organization. Just like all of the classrooms and organizations had to have the four &#039 ; P&#039 ; s as a part of that. 11:08 Each organization had to have the five wells as a part of their process. What made that so important was that the president of each one of those social clubs was also a part of the senate. He wasn&#039 ; t just the presidents of the classroom but also the presidents of those organizations was a part of the senate as well. And so they had an opportunity to help shape and form the programs and activities that took place on this campus and also in the community. When Dr. Baker, or when the other administrators would come to this school, and if the community had paper on the grounds they would designate a class to go out and clean the community and pick up the paper on the grounds. Of course, the school did not have a gymnasium until 1953/4. Prior to that they had an area which they called the Bowl. 12:02 The Bowl was an area that you could stand on the hill and look down and they would have all their assemblies in that bowl. They would have the students line up from the first grade to the twelfth grade with the twelfth graders being in the front, and they would go grade wide in terms of lining up, for the bowl assembly, and they would do that once a week, in terms of that. As we -- as the organization around the school was perfected by Dr Baker, when activities, we would make, actually make a program for the whole year that everybody would give their program to the senate and we would implement that program. 12:44 By the same token, the other thing that was unique about Mobile County Training School and had been discontinued by the time I became, in high school, a senior, is that they had students that covered all of the organizations from the honor roll to the attendance -- students were in charge of that. The students would get the reports everyday of who was on time, who was not on time, and the whole nine yards and that. Also, if at one time every student on Monday morning had to turn in their Sunday school report card to they say the went to Sunday school on Sunday. If they did not they had to go home and bring their parents back to school, and stuff. So kids were rallying around to make sure that card was signed by their Sunday school superintendent. 13:41 The other thing that was so unique about the experience at Mobile County Training School and the kind of thing that we got is that every student had to look up to other students. We had clubs in the sixth, seventh, eighth grade, and ninth grade. You went through those clubs and when you got to be in the city high school those clubs would select you to be a part of their club, but you actually got training in the early grades of how to run parliamentary procedure, how to conduct yourself in clubs, so that when you became into the senior high school you know how to run those organizations and do things. So you got your primary training in the early earlier years and in the secondary years you were in a position to run the school. 14:35 Also, Mobile County Training School had a uniform code, we were blue and white. What was so unique about that is you had an organization called the big sisters and the big sisters were in charge of girls conduct, dress, and appropriateness and they would be the ones who managed, disciplined, and referred individuals who were out of line to the student body in terms of addressing that issue. 15:01 The boys had a group called the marshals, the marshals were sort of like the police force on campus. The marshals would do the hall monitoring, the campus monitoring, and discipline and they were highly respected. And so conduct would be referred to the marshals or whatever. 15:17 *electronic bell rings in background* Mr. Flen: that&#039 ; s the bell * Fiskio laughs and announcement plays* Mr Flen: Okay? Fiskio: Okay. 15:32 The Marshals were to police on campus, they were really looked as the authority for all individuals and so their role was to make sure the guys adhered to the rules and regulations as they related to the guys. As a seventh grader eighth grade the marshals absolutely intimidated me. I was more afraid of the marshals than I was of the teachers sometimes because of just their presence and the way in which they carried themselves. But the unique thing about both the marshals and the big sisters, you were to emulate them in terms of their mannerisms and their dress. 16:11 The other things that made Mobile County Training School unique in terms of the student led part of this campus is that once you became a senior you had the opportunity and the privilege to wear red ties -- both the boys and the girls. Girls wore red ties just like guys wore read ties -- the girls ties were sort of a bowtie that they sort of stringed and fixed on them. The other thing that was unique about girls&#039 ; ties was that the girls wore different styles of uniform. They wore the V-8 dresses, the pleated skirts, the white blouses -- so there was a uniqueness about the different uniforms the girls could wear in terms of that. And every girl looked forward to being the neatest girl on campus in that uniform and wearing that red tie which brought pride to all seniors at Mobile County Training School. 17:04 Do you wanna cut? Fiskio: till the kids go, do you mind? sorry. Mr. Flen: No problem. Fiskio: So if you don&#039 ; t mind, there was something you brought up earlier that I was hoping to hear the story of. You mentioned -- I think it was you or your class president maybe -- that the first junior prom that was held in a hotel and I would just love to hear that story, what that was like. When was that? What year was that? 17:44 Mr. Flen: In 1967, which was my junior year in high school, a great number of things started happening in Mobile. Mobile is one of the last cities to really -- from a desegregation standpoint -- to really get engaged with desegregation. Mobile was the only city, the only major city in Alabama that Dr. Martin Luther King did not walk in and march. He did come here but he did not march because of some political things that were going on both in the black community and in other places. However, in 1967, because we had a couple of teachers who were involved in some community social groups -- they wanted to test to make sure desegregation was taking place -- and they asked us if we would consider having our prom at the Mobile Battle House in Mobile which is a major hotel in downtown mobile. 18:45 Prior to that no black or negro school, as it was called at that time, had ever had a prom at a major hotel in Mobile, Alabama. So in 1967 I was the president of the student body and a friend of mine, Fred Brown, was vice president and we reversed those roles as junior officers and we went down to the Battle-House to negotiate the first ever contract in the history of Mobile of a black high school to have a prom in a major hotel. I&#039 ; ll never forget that prom because we had it in the crystal ballroom. 19:25 Next year will be our fiftieth anniversary of the class of 1968 and we have committed to go back fifty years later to have our fiftieth-class reunion in the crystal ballroom at the Mobile Battle house hotel. That was significant for a couple of reasons. Because, once again, the training at Mobile County Training School was all about student leadership and about carrying out that student leadership in a very precise way. I would have never guessed fifty years later, over my journey in life, that those experiences have been very beneficial for me, in that process. The teachers in Mobile Alabama Training School were just not teachers, they were family. 20:19 Theres some stories that I would just like to share with you about how those teachers was really involved in our lives. One of my classmates, when she was a junior or sophomore in high school -- we always had pageants that were represented by the different classes -- this particular classmate, and I cant recall if it was her sophomore or junior year, or freshman or junior year, but she was selected to be the class queen for that particular class. Well, after being selected, she told the teacher: well my parents will not let me do this year because they&#039 ; re going to have to go out and get a gown for me to wear to be a part of that procession and so I know they&#039 ; re not gonna let me participate in this here. The teacher walked home with her that day and sit down and talk with her parents and told them whatever it took he would help make sure she had that particular gown because she had been selected. 21:28 And you were selected at that time based on two things: your character and your grade performance and the things selected to be a part of certain activities. That was one of those activities. That was one of those activities, that you had to have the grade point average but you also had to have to character to even compete to be a part of that and the teacher felt that that student represented both of those particular traits and did not want them to lose that opportunity, to be a part of that process. 21:59 They&#039 ; re other instances where teachers played major roles in our lives. There was a situation whereby one young man went out to the football team -- and sports for us at Mobile County Training School was a ritual and a tradition and this bell thats behind us is a part of that ritual and tradition. Whenever a game was played and won this bell was rung. When a football team went out of town and won a game and the call would come in -- before they got back to town everybody knew that had won the game because the bell was rung. 22:36 There was a gentleman -- everybody wanted to be on one of those teams -- the football team was the high-profile team -- this gentleman was in the ninth grade, and he had gone out to participate in the football team and had been cut. He was going home and as he was walking home he was crying --down this particular street -- and the gentleman by the name of Tommy Jones -- he&#039 ; s the brother of Cleon Jones who played with the New York Mets in the amazing Mets -- Tommy Jones saw this young man named Gabe Coleman and he asked Gabe: &quot ; Why are you crying?&quot ; 23:13 He said because Coach Ross, who was notorious and famous coach, had cut him from the football team. So, Thomas Jones asked him: &quot ; what position did he cut you from?&quot ; &quot ; He cut me from the quarter back position.&quot ; So, Tommy Jones told him, said: &quot ; Go back tomorrow and go back for (Indecipherable) &quot ; But he said, he told me he said he cut me from the quarter back position&quot ; he said &quot ; that was yesterday for quarterback, you go in for a different position, and if he cut you tomorrow for (Indecipherable)you go back the next day for guard, and if he cut you for guard you go back for center, and if he cut you for center you go back for tackle.&quot ; and he said &quot ; you keep going back.&quot ; 23:49 Gabe went back five days in a row. Coach Ross selected Gabe to be on the team because of his perseverance and the determination. When I became on the football team my freshman year the one word Coach Ross would write on the board before every game was the word &quot ; desire.&quot ; He said &quot ; we will win or lose this game based on, not the training or the preparation we did on the field, because we know we&#039 ; ve done that, we will win this game because of the desire in your heart to win this game. It is not how big those players are, or how fast those players are, it all boils down to the desire thats in your heart.&quot ; Those are the kind of examples that I saw, and I experienced on this campus and in this community. 24:48 The other thing that community people would tell us, especially they would always be inquisitive to recognizing those students who were gifted both in terms of athletics but especially academics. They would always point out, and literally point to your head and say, &quot ; get it up here they cant take it from you.&quot ; Because they understood, for so many of them, including our teachers, they had been denied continuously opportunities, not because of their talent, only because of their color. They understood that times were changing, and they wanted to prepare us for the best and so, when I talk about those five wells and I talk about these experiences, all those things begin to come to together, in terms of talking about Mobile County Training School. 25:44 My goal and ambition for Mobile County Training School is to, somehow, make sure that the students and alumni that went through this school understand the DNA of this school. Now just any school can give you books to read even today they can give you computers to work on but do they put the DNA in your bone marrow to have the desire to succeed, and not only to succeed, to give back. Because one of the mottos of Mobile Training School was to give, is to give back. 26:22 Our teachers constantly gave back. Every teacher that I went to at some point in time came to my house, they knew my parents, they talked to my parents. There was one teacher, a principal, or gentleman in the community named Mr. Lemmy O&#039 ; Keaby Mr. Keaby (Spell Check) was a 1930 graduate of Mobile County Training School and he grew up in Magazine Point. Mr Keaby didn&#039 ; t have any children he was a direct descendent from the slave ship Clotilda. Mr. Keaby, to me, was the meanest man in the world. He never smiled. Mr. Keaby was probably about six foot two and stood with a position of just authority. I found out later on Mr. Keaby was a math and English major from Tuskegee. 27:12 I&#039 ; ll never forget, Mr. Keaby would call my father and ask my father to send some boys over to his mothers house, usually to do some work. I&#039 ; ll never forget, we had a situation where we went over to his mothers house and he wanted us to pull some nails from the planks and boards to save the best boards, to straighten out the nails, to separate the nails, to put them in different containers -- and so it was five of us who did that: Cal and more, Sam Keavy, Raymond Griffen, Russel, Mitchell(Spell Check) and myself. 27:44 And at around noon time his mother gave us a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and some water to eat and drink. We worked for Mr. Keavy from eight O&#039 ; clock that morning to six O&#039 ; clock that evening. At six o&#039 ; clock that evening we knew we were gonna get a big paycheck, Mr. Keavy gave us 25 cents total and asks us to spend it one place and to share it with each other. I went home and I told my father I would never again work for Mr. Lenny O&#039 ; Keavy for under any circumstances at all. My father looked at me in a most stern way and he said to me: &quot ; if Mr. Keavy calls you, you will go&quot ; 28:26 My father could not read or write. Mr. Keavy -- and we didnt have a car when I was growing up, in high school -- my father saw me play football for the first time when Mr. Keavy brought him to a football game. When I graduated from high school and my freshman year in college Mr. Keavy sent me 500 dollars for my college. That was a teaching moment for me and a learning moment of understanding that people will wait and see what I was gonna do and to see if I was worthy of receiving those kinds of gifts, and stuff. And so, I remember that particular situation as though it were yesterday and there are many many many situations similar to that that I can share. Not on only with myself and with other students. 29:16 And that is what I encourage my peers to do. One of the things that my classmatesand us are gonna do -- and our theme is remembering the old days -- for next year year in 2018, and our theme is around remembering those individuals, and so what we are in the process of doing is making pictures of everybody that was a part of our class to remember those individuals. We&#039 ; re also going to make pictures of all of our teachers, our parents, and community figures who were a part of that. We&#039 ; re gonna rent a ballroom space and put all of these particular artifacts and things on display. We&#039 ; re gonna bring back and invite our children nephews and nieces to share with them how we grew up and the things that we played with from packorollers(spell check) to skateboards to the whole nine yards -- that we made these items and we&#039 ; re gonna make them again to popgods(spell check) and so on -- that we did that. 30:18 Part of the reason that we&#039 ; re doing that is that we wanna share this history of Mobile County Training School in this community to our descendants so that they understand, yes, we have done well, yes, we are much better off than what our parents were. But if it wasn&#039 ; t for that foundation, those things that which they taught us, those rituals in which they sent us through, those trainings that which we had, we would not be the persons that we are today. 30:48 Our churches did the same thing -- and just speaking a little bit about our churches -- Union Baptist church, which I think some of you visited, was where the school was started -- but Yorktown church is another school church in which they had opportunities and procedures - activities there. Yorktown church is the considered the founders of Mobile County Training School as a public school. That is where the seven individuals who partitioned the school system and brought Mr. Whitley to Mobile came out of, out of that particular school. 31:23 The first millionaire in Mobile, in the black community or in Africatown -- black millionaire in Africatown -- was Mr. Nelson Adam(Spell Check) There is a school named after Mr. Nelson Adam. Nelson Adam was the man that helped finance Mobile County Training School with land buildings and so on in terms of working. So Yorktown church played a very valuable role in Mobile County Training School because of those seven individuals, and others. Hogwell is the church where the original bell came from in 1915 that is believed to come from the Clotilda. When the church, Hogwell(Spell Check) was burned in 1915, and when that church was burned that bell was reconditioned by a social club called the Just Us Club, which was an all-boys club on Mobile County Training School campus and brought to this particular campus in 1915. That bell was displaced in the late nineties or early two thousands somewhere and so we had to go out and find another bell which you see behind me and we had a dedication of the new bell in August 2017 of this year. 32:40 So all of those pieces are a part of what make Mobile County Training School special. Mobile County Training School -- when you think about the Africatown community, we had at least twenty grocery stores out here, we had clubs, we had movie theaters, we had restaurants, we had pool rooms, we had pool rooms, we had hotels and motels, we had laundry mats, we were a self-contained community. 33:06 Mobile, the plateau Africatown community, did not become a part of the city of Mobile until the 1950s when it was incorporated into Mobile. And that&#039 ; s a real interesting story as well because, in order for Mobile to first gets lights and power out here from Alabama Power, their condition was three people had to buy stoves from the power company in order to be qualified to get power put out here in the Plateau area in the 1940s. Those three people were: Mr. Robert Hope, his brother, and Dr. Baker who was the principal of Mobile County Training School. Those people purchased those stoves in order for power to be ran out here, as a condition to get power into this community. 33:58 It&#039 ; s real interesting because the whole family have eleven children and even though they had the stove they couldn&#039 ; t hook it up because they couldn&#039 ; t afford to pay for it. So they had to still use the gas lanterns for lights they had it all hooked up but they couldn&#039 ; t turn it on and stuff. So that&#039 ; s an interesting story in and of itself in terms of how this community came about, in terms of doing some things. The other thing that I learned about the community was that Dr. Baker always shot for excellence. So, one of the things that he did -- if there was any national program from the Boy Scouts to the, uh, any organization including accreditations for high schools, Dr. Baker would apply for those accreditations. And so if you talk about the High School National Honor Roll, or you talk about the National Boy Scouts, the Mobile County Training School has a certificate for that because Dr. Baker was gonna apply for it. 34:53 In 1934 it is said that Mobile County Training School became the first Black school in the south to be accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Universities in the history of Alabama and in the South, in 1934. There was a gentleman by the name of Brown Pygmy (Spell Check) who just died this year, Brown Pygmy went to Dunbar High School and graduated from Dunbar High School in 1933. He wanted the thing to be on his certificate to say that he graduated from an accredited high school so he spent another year, came to Mobile County Training School and graduated from Mobile County Training School, in order to have that certificate on his diploma that he graduated from an accredited high school in Mobile Alabama, and stuff. Mr. Brown Pygmy, I never met him, but his nephew Mr. Isaac Pygmy taught me -- it was one of my mentors, and he&#039 ; s still living and he&#039 ; s here in Mobile, Alabama. So, it was those kind of stories that we were taught in Mobile. 36:02 The song, the school song, of Mobile County Training School is written by Dr. Wally Bolden. Dr. Wally Bolden will be ninety-nine years old this year. He&#039 ; s in Atlanta, GA. and every time I get an opportunity I go by and see him. He told me that the two professions that, if you wanted to be paid the most money in teaching at a school, the two professions you wanted at that time in the thirties and forties, were you wanted to be a math teacher or you wanted to be a agriculture teacher because Mobile County Training School grew its own food to feed its own students when it had the cafeteria here. It did everything, it had the cows, and he often asked me: &quot ; what did y&#039 ; all do with the goat?&quot ; Well I didn&#039 ; t know nothin&#039 ; about no goat. But he said they goat that was in the entrance of Mobile County Training School, when you came in the goat was there. &quot ; I don&#039 ; t know nothin&#039 ; about the goat,&quot ; I said, &quot ; we&#039 ; re still looking for the goat, okay.&quot ; 36:58 But it was those kind of rituals and stories that were told to us and shared with us about things. All of the social clubs and service clubs usually met on the weekend and at somebodies house, and it was typically on Sunday that they would meet at people&#039 ; s houses. When I was a senior we had a ring ceremony. In terms that we did a dedication of our graduation ring ceremony and we had that at a house and each social club would have that dedication for that particular senior group in terms of the dedication of the ring ceremony. So, we learned how to have those wellness moments of celebration and embracing and appreciation in everything that we did. 37:49 Everything that was done at Mobile County Training School was a celebration. It was a celebration because in the broader world, as we understood it and saw it, we were constantly being put down and denigrated by larger society. This was really a sanctuary for us. And one young lady, who is a descendant of the Guilard Family(Spell Check) who lives in Atlanta. There were eight girls in this particular person&#039 ; s family, Guilard family, and she talked about the fact that she looked forward to coming to school because at home there was suh a rigid standard there that she got an opportunity to have autonomy, flexibility, and leadership, and an opinion at Mobile County Training School that she didn&#039 ; t even have in her own household. Because that was an opportunity for us to express ourselves in the confines of the protocol that we had. So, she looked forward to that. 38:55 Most students did not want to miss a day of school because that gave them an opportunity of being in leadership roles, whether it was in sports, whether it was academic, whether it was a social club, or whether it was just activities in general. They had the autonomy to make those decisions, make recommendations. Because, at home you did what mamma said to do, and that as it. So, it was just such an ideal place. 39:22 The other thing that made Mobile County Training School so wonderful, and the connection between the church, the school, and the community was that you didn&#039 ; t wanna get in trouble at school, because you had two other venues you gonna be in trouble with. You gonna be in trouble with home and getting home because the kids are gonna run ahead of you and say, well, &quot ; he got in trouble&quot ; and they were gonna call you over and say, &quot ; what you doin&#039 ; getting in trouble&quot ; and then pop you upside the head. When you got home, your parents were gonna chastise you because they would tell you &quot ; you don&#039 ; t disrespect the teacher. Then, on top of that you gon&#039 ; get in trouble on Sunday because it got to Sunday school you got in trouble and they were gonna discipline you. 40:06 So you were just at every corner and as you got older and you began to realize what they were trying to prepare you for was one of those &#039 ; wells&#039 ; . And that &#039 ; well&#039 ; was well-balanced. That you had to recognize and live up to authority. Because if you didn&#039 ; t there were situations that could literally take your career from you or worse than that, take your life from you. If it had not been for Mobile County Training School, for many individuals, they would not be the people that they are today. I sometimes look and I wonder at my peers and others and I say we all have been blessed tremendously because of Mobile County Training School and the environment in which we grew up in. And I guarantee you if you ever talk to anyone who went to Mobile County Training School they can tell you stories as I&#039 ; ve told you today and share with you, as I&#039 ; ve shared with you today, stories that will resonate with you and leave a lasting impression on you. And so, one of the things that concerns me is that many of my peers and some of the older alumni, for whatever reason, do not believe that it matters. And this happens with families, this happens in many situations. 41:25 The reason that I come back to Mobile every month, as often as I can, and as I do the things that I do, is because I know that one person can make a difference. One person made a difference in my life, and many one-people that made a difference in my life. One gentleman that made a tremendous difference in my life was Curtis Hardin.(Spell Check) Curtis Hardin sent me down as a junior in high school. I had the world in the palm of my hand. I was president of the class my senior year -- this is my senior year -- I was president of student body, vice-president of the National Negro High School Association, quarter-back on the football team, and captain, second-base all-city player, honor roll student, math and science club. Could go to any prom because the president of student government got invitations to all the proms as a special gesture. Could go to any prom that I wanted too. So, I had all this stuff going on and so my head got swoll&#039 ; beyond belief. Curtis Hardin set me down and he said, &quot ; I&#039 ; ve heard that you&#039 ; ve become negligent and you&#039 ; ve become arrogant&quot ; and he said, &quot ; let me tell you a story.&quot ; 42:53 And that was what was so wonderful about our teachers. They did not tell you what to do. They told you a story and that story was to try to illustrate to you: make the decision. Because, in life you have to make the decision: look at the story. And after he told me a story about himself, the Tuskegee and the things that had happened to him at Tuskegee and he said, &quot ; the world is yours but you&#039 ; re gonna have to make a decision&quot ; and from that experience it made a difference in my life and to this day I&#039 ; m constantly in contact with him, sharing with him how much I appreciate him and all the things which he did for me. 43:34 The story goes on and on with so many different teachers so many different community people. So, I say to my peers and others that I&#039 ; ve learned and met: lets give back cause we have something to give back. To the future generation: my hope is, and my class is moving towards this year, is to get our descendants to understand: this is your legacy, this is your DNA, be proud of it. Let&#039 ; s make it excellence. We come from people who invested in excellence, thats why they taught us the five &#039 ; wells&#039 ; . Thats why they taught us the four &#039 ; p&#039 ; s. Thats why they taught us the three &#039 ; R&#039 ; s.&quot ; It was about excellence. And so, we have a responsibility to share with them this excellence and encourage them to embrace this excellence and make a difference. We can do it, we must do it, one person at a time. And that&#039 ; s all I got to say. *laughs* video 0 https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile= Sort Priority This field allows you to determine the object order in your gallery. This plugin is designed to work only with the Philly theme. 0001 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Anderson Flen Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/ef55e77f725a0f2829e80594043334ac.png 759e22130c42a0abc8ec4411ce07f95d Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Nathan Carpenter Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Beatrice Morse OHMS Object This field contain the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file withing the OHMS Viewer). https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=A_Beatrice_Morse.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and/or Transcript and is what make the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka. 5.4 Beatrice Morse 47:36 Africatown January 2023 Oberlin College Library Beatrice Morse Nathan Carpenter 1:|15(2)|26(11)|36(4)|45(9)|56(8)|67(10)|79(16)|93(3)|102(7)|110(3)|119(2)|129(10)|137(11)|149(9)|162(4)|169(13)|179(2)|190(1)|203(13)|214(6)|223(12)|237(6)|248(5)|259(5)|269(2)|286(13)|295(16)|304(13)|312(16)|324(11)|337(2)|351(5)|359(12)|368(9)|377(1)|387(6)|396(2)|404(14)|414(11)|428(17)|438(10)|451(11)|465(13)|474(9)|481(3)|490(6)|501(15) 0 https://youtu.be/O1s-Nmx54BY YouTube video 44 Black Education in Mobile But at the time, there was no high school in Prichard to African American children. So we had the choice to go either to Mobile Country Training School which was in Plateau - that’s what we called it, Africatown, it’s in Africatown- and downtown Mobile there was a Dunbar High School but there was some confusion with the system and the schools with regard to the feeder patterns. Morse talks about her and her siblings' school path from Ella Grant to Mobile County Training School. Africatown ; Central High School ; Dunbar High School ; Ella Grant School ; Freshman ; MCTS ; Mr. Baker ; Primer Childhood ; Education. ; Family. ; Mobile (Ala.) ; Mobile County Training School ; Plateau (Mobile, Ala.) ; Prichard (Ala.) 288 Segregation and Bussing to MCTS So, I’m simply saying I didn’t find any difference in the children who lived in Africatown or Whistler or whatever, our differences came more just with who you chose to be your friend. Morse talks about the different, far-away neighborhoods that kids came from and the bus rides to get to Mobile County Training School. Buses ; Colloquial ; Dalton Robertson ; Highway 45 ; MCTS ; Mount Vernon ; Saraland ; Satsuma ; School ; Transportation ; Walking ; Whistler Childhood. ; Education. ; Mobile County Training School ; Prichard (Ala.) ; Segregation. 591 Path in Higher Education I got a Bachelor’s from Alabama State University, I forgot to mention that- I have never had to take a backseat academically, I don’t care what school I was in. Morse talks about her experience in higher education institutions, undergraduate and graduate, and how Ella Grant and MCTS set her up for success. Alberta Davies ; Bachelor's ; Ella Grant School ; English grammar ; Esther Picket Lang ; Graduate degrees ; Illinois ; Master's Degree ; MCTS ; Microscope ; Teaching certificate ; undergraduate Alabama State University ; Biology. ; Education. ; Illinois Wesleyan University ; Mathematics. ; Mobile County Training School ; PhD degree ; Student ; Teacher ; University of Alabama 790 Experience at MCTS So outstanding academicians were who we had for teachers. Not only were they good and smart academically, the whole demeanor around education when I came up was everybody needs to get an education and everybody is going to respect the teachers or the deliverers, whoever is givin’ it to you, you’re gonna respect them, you’re gonna do what they say to do. Morse talks about the atmosphere at MCTS, including athletic rivalries and outstanding teachers. athletic ; Central High School ; outstanding ; Principal ; Respect ; rivalry ; Whippets Education. ; Football. ; Learning. ; Mobile County Training School ; Student ; Teacher 984 Academic Achievement Despite Poverty But I just know that there are so many people who have achieved, in my opinion, significantly, who came from what we today call “poverty stricken”- all of us, I was poverty stricken for sure. I didn’t know what poverty was, but I was poverty stricken. We didn’t have any- nobody bought our books ; the state didn’t buy out books. Morse talks about how schools didn't provide books, so she studied the books that her older siblings passed down to her. achieve ; Books ; chemistry ; Dillard ; homework ; Mobile Public Schools ; Poverty ; Poverty Stricken ; scientist ; Textbooks Alabama State University ; Childhood ; Education. ; Family. ; Mathematics. ; Student ; Teacher 1180 Disciplined in School And I’m old fashioned enough now to believe that anybody who disciplined you loved you and tried to make you do better. Morse tells a story about how her teachers reacted when she got in a fight in class. Corporal Punishment ; Discipline ; fight ; spanking Education. ; Mobile County Training School ; Stories. ; Student ; Teacher 1333 Hope Store We would maybe be out at PE or somewhere, and the kids would give those little kids a nickel through the fence cause we weren’t allowed to go off campus, to go to that Hope Store- it was no more than three houses over and bring them a cookie or something back with their money. Morse talks about the store near MCTS campus, but not being able to leave to get a cookie. Africatown ; Bus ; geography ; Hope Store ; nickel ; obedient ; Prichard ; Stores ; Turner Road ; Whitley Education. ; Mobile County Training School ; Plateau (Mobile, Ala.) ; Stories. 1507 Importance of Education in Family It never occurred to me that I was poor and that I was not going to school and that I was not going to college. I mean, goin’ to school was what you did until you got a degree in my family. Morse talks about how her mother's childhood set up the importance of education in her family. 1953 ; Bishop State Community College ; college educated ; Country ; critical ; Frankville ; I.J Whitley ; poor ; routine ; Selma ; Yearbook Alabama State University ; Biology. ; Education. ; Family. ; GED ; Mathematics. ; Mobile (Ala.) ; Mobile County Training School ; Teacher 1841 Career as a Teacher But as it turns out teaching has been the most rewarding experience I could ever have. Because I love children and I think that I did some children some good, I don’t know. I know that I’ve had experiences where people tell me they could never do math well until I helped ‘em with it. Morse talks about her career as an educator in Mobile Public Schools and at Spring Hill College. Educational psychology, research and statistics ; Master's Degree ; Mobile Public Schools ; Upward Bound program Biology. ; Education. ; Mathematics. ; Nursing. ; PhD degree ; Scholarship ; Spring Hill College ; Teacher ; Teacher education ; Tuskegee Institute. 2276 Keeping in Touch But what we do even now, if any of the classmates in this book come to Mobile, Alabama from wherever they live, we get together and have lunch or something, breakfast or something. Morse talks about keeping in touch with her classmates from MCTS and participating on the board of the Alumni Association. alumni ; Alumni Association ; Board ; Merit ; Mobile Public Schools ; reunion ; yearbook Classmates ; Mobile (Ala.) ; Mobile County Training School ; Plateau (Mobile, Ala.) ; Retirement ; Teacher ; Volunteer 2476 Exodus from Africatown I was born in Prichard but most people who were born here don’t live here anymore. My sister and I live here but all four of my siblings, my brothers left. Morse talks about how people from the area often leave for their careers and do not return to the community. Africatown ; leaving ; physical deterioration Community. ; Plateau (Mobile, Ala.) ; Prichard (Ala.) 2572 Heritage in Africatown Every year we had to recite a poem and most of the poets were Black. Every year we had to attend what they called a cultural event down at the Theater and most of the performers were Black. So, we got that kind of Black heritage, so to speak. Morse talks about learning Black history and heritage in school, and emphasizes the important relationships that MCTS built within the community. Africatown ; Black history ; Cudjo ; Cudjoe ; Doris Allen Lee ; Ella Grant School ; heritage ; John Smith ; MCTS ; poetry ; seatmate Classmates ; Clotilda (Ship) ; Education. ; Family. ; History. ; Lewis, Cudjo ; Mobile County Training School ; Prichard (Ala.) ; Relationships. ; Student ; Teacher Oral History Carpenter: This is Nathan Carpenter with Oberlin College, I&#039 ; m here with Ify Ezimora and Kaylee Elliott, both also from Oberlin college and we&#039 ; re here with Ms. Beatrice Morse, who has agreed to be interviewed for the Africatown Oral History Archive Project. It&#039 ; s January 7th 2019, 5:25pm and we&#039 ; re in Mobile Alabama, or just outside of Mobile Alabama and I just want to clarify on the recording that Ms. Morse, you are welcome to decline to answer any questions that you&#039 ; d like and that your participation in this project is voluntary so if at any point you&#039 ; d like to stop you are free to do so. Morse: Okay. Carpenter: So I guess I just wanna start with, you said you&#039 ; re originally from Prichard Morse: I was born in a portion of Prichard that was at that time called Bull&#039 ; s Head but it is a part of the incorporated area of Prichard now. Carpenter: And so you began to go to Mobile County Training School at what age? Morse: Oh, I started at Ella Grant School in Prichard and I went there from grade, what we call primer, I guess that&#039 ; s what we call kindergarten now, to grade seven. Those are the grades that I completed there. But at the time, there was no high school in Prichard to African American children. So we had the choice to go either to Mobile Country Training School which was in Plateau - that&#039 ; s what we called it, Africatown, it&#039 ; s in Africatown- and downtown Mobile there was a Dunbar High School but there was some confusion with the system and the schools with regard to the feeder patterns. Dunbar had the tenth, eleventh, and twelfth grades only. As I understand it, I didn&#039 ; t go there. Mobile County Training School had what they call the eighth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth. I&#039 ; m sure you have heard that from somebody in your previous. Now, that did not mean that we didn&#039 ; t go to the same number of grades because the elementary schools that fed to Mobile County Training School did not have a primer, or a kindergarten- I guess you would call it kindergarten now but I went at six years old to Ella Grant School and at six years old was the only time you could go, I went to primer and I went to Ella Grant School through seventh grade. When we got ready to go to high school if we had gone- we couldn&#039 ; t go to Dunbar. They didn&#039 ; t have an eighth- they didn&#039 ; t have a freshman class to put it the way, in our vernacular today. So we went to Mobile County Training School for the freshman year and my mother actually wanted us to go to Central, I&#039 ; m sorry- well, it was called Central about that time, they changed it from Dunbar. You guys should- I forget the history but Dunbar became Central High School and my mother wanted me and my brother who&#039 ; s just one year older than I to go there too. But because the older brothers had started out at County and when Mr. Baker went to then Central High School and it was, used to be Dunbar, my mother forced them to go with that school. Now she wanted us to go to that same school because she had the greatest of respect for Dr. Baker. And we had school loyalty, we had to go to County one year. So after we went that one year we didn&#039 ; t wanna go the other three years down there. So we pleaded and she let us stay there. But all of my mother&#039 ; s children attended at least three years. My older brothers went three years and went to... Central at that time, but it was the Mobile school. And my second brother went three years and my younger brother who&#039 ; s just a year older than I all went four- we went all four years over there. I know that doesn&#039 ; t make any sense to you. (laughs) Carpenter: It&#039 ; s all good, all good info. Can you talk a little bit about what your experience was like as a student at Mobile County Training School, what it was like to go there particularly, I guess, for someone who- who didn&#039 ; t live in Plateau or Africatown? Morse: Well, I don&#039 ; t guess I had any special or particular different feeling. I didn&#039 ; t have any choice. School was school, you know you- I actually was a very young child. I completed my grades primer through seventh and I actually might have been eleven years old - I went to Mobile County Training School- let me back it out. I graduated at fifteen. So fourteen, thirteen, twelve, eleven. So I went to Mobile County Training School at eleven years old. I didn&#039 ; t- I mean, school was just school. I was gonna go somewhere for sure and that was where we had to go. We didn&#039 ; t really have a lot of choices. I found the kids were probably a lot less colloquial than they are now. You know, I didn&#039 ; t find any difference in those of us who came from Africatown cause a lotta kids came from Saraland, a lotta kids came from Satsuma, Mount Vernon. I don&#039 ; t know if you know the geography here, but Mount Vernon is thirty miles from here. Because there were no schools for African Americans except these. So, I&#039 ; m simply saying I didn&#039 ; t find any difference in the children who lived in Africatown or Whistler or whatever, our differences came more just with who you chose to be your friend. Carpenter: So you&#039 ; re talking about how some- some students had to travel thirty miles because the school system was segregated- Morse: Absolutely. There&#039 ; s a young man who&#039 ; s- he&#039 ; s still alive, he&#039 ; s- he was a judge. He was an attorney then he became a judge up in the North somewhere, his name is Dalton Robertson, he was in my class. He had to come from Mount Vernon every day. Carpenter: Some of the folks that we&#039 ; ve talked to have talked about they also came from, you know, Prichard or Satsuma or some of these other places and they described having to, you know, go by the white schools that were closer to their house on the way. Morse: All of us did that. And the transportation was horrific. We were very poor but there was no free busing for anyone. I do recall that early on, they had what we call the special bus it was dedicated just to taking kids from areas then over- I don&#039 ; t know if they did for Mount Vernon and all those, they did for Prichard. I don&#039 ; t think they did for Mount Vernon or Whistler or some of those other places, I don&#039 ; t know for sure but those buses were dedicated, meaning nobody else got on that bus with us and they didn&#039 ; t have to make any stops to pick up anybody else. They had special places where they were gonna pick you up, and they were goin&#039 ; straight to Mobile County Training School. But- and the price was a little bit different. I think regular busfare might&#039 ; a been a dime, we had to pay a nickel. (laughing) So, that tells you how old I am! But, uh, if you missed that bus- and I missed it a lotta times, I had to hump over. From down Highway 45- you see where I am now up off of Highway 45 but down Highway 45 about three miles, I had to hump all the way over to Plateau. I had to walk past kids who were riding a bus to their school, and who would throw spitballs out at you, out of their bus and I started before them, they got on the bus after me- distance wise- then they got off the bus before I got to where I was goin&#039 ; . If you understand what I&#039 ; m tryin&#039 ; to say. But that was the status quo, I mean, if you ask me now how I felt, it was just normal. But certainly when you look back, as I look back now, we all know that it was not the right thing to do but school was school. I loved going to Mobile County Training School. And I learned a lot there. I will tell you now that I have two graduate degrees, I have a Master&#039 ; s degree from Illinois Wesleyan University in Bloomington, Illinois and I have a PhD degree from the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa. I got there late because when I wanted to go to the University of Alabama I was not allowed to go. But I have never had to - I got a Bachelor&#039 ; s from Alabama State University, I forgot to mention that- I have never had to take a backseat academically, I don&#039 ; t care what school I was in. The only time I felt a difference in my education was when I first went to Illinois Wesleyan, I was majoring in Biology and I had gotten a high school teaching certificate in mathematics and in biology. I couldn&#039 ; t use the microscope adequately when I got to Illionois Wesleyan and that&#039 ; s the only shortcoming I ever had in trying to compete with other students. And the reason I couldn&#039 ; t use the microscope as proficiently as the rest of the other students because all of them were Caucasian, there were three of us who were Black there- when I went to college at Alabama State we had about four microscopes in each classroom. When I got up there every student had his or her own microscope. So in undergraduate school I was just lookin&#039 ; at the teacher do all of that. And certainly he didn&#039 ; t want you touchin&#039 ; it either. If he put his on the- you know, you a scientist, you know what I&#039 ; m talkin&#039 ; bout- he put it on a spot, and he didn&#039 ; t want you to move it. So that&#039 ; s the only thing in my entire academic career I remember having difficulty with. And once an undergraduate student showed me how to use a microscope, I didn&#039 ; t have any more trouble with that. I can honestly say that I went to Ella Grant School- I know we&#039 ; re talkin&#039 ; bout Mobile County Training school but I went to Ella Grant School in Prichard and I had an English teacher in the seventh grade named Miss Alberta Davies and at Mobile Training School in the- I think it was eleventh grade- I had an English teacher named Mrs. Esther Picket Lang and I will honestly say, I learned all of the English grammar that I currently know right now between those two teachers and I don&#039 ; t boast but I think I have a pretty good mastery of the English language. And I honestly say that. I have never learned any more grammar since that time. I don&#039 ; t think a lot of kids can say that today. Carpenter: You mentioned that you love Mobile County Training School and I&#039 ; m wondering if you&#039 ; d be able to just kind of speak to why. Morse: (pointing offscreen) my book here. (interviewer hands Morse her MCTS yearbook) the mighty Whippets! We had the best football team around, and there was always this big rivalry between Mobile County Training School and what became Central High School because of course the principal left Mobile County Training School. He was promoted and he took a large number of his teachers with him and, as I indicated before, my mama made my brothers go down there. It was this big rivalry, we&#039 ; re gonna beat this school, they messed our school up. They took our students, they took our teachers. And it was a friendly enough rivalry but we had a whole lot of fun (flipping through Mobile Country Training School yearbook) and it was basically athletic. And we had a lot of outstanding athletes, I&#039 ; m sure you&#039 ; re aware of that now even from just the most recent history. Carpenter: And you also, you mentioned a specific teacher from County as well and we hear a lot from alum that we talk to how important teachers were. Morse: I don&#039 ; t mean to diminish the quality of any others but that was just an example, I&#039 ; m tryna say of how those schools formed you so early and it&#039 ; s always to me a shame for people to think that those schools were not capable of producing very good students. I don&#039 ; t think that that is the truth. We had a number of outstanding teachers, most of them were outstanding teachers. I wanna believe they were outstanding teachers because they were outstanding people who would have been something other than a teacher today because they did not have that opportunity to become the president of the United States or a Harvard lawyer or a geologist or a psychologist. They just didn&#039 ; t have those kinds of opportunities. So outstanding academicians were who we had for teachers. Not only were they good and smart academically, the whole demeanor around education when I came up was everybody needs to get an education and everybody is going to respect the teachers or the deliverers, whoever is givin&#039 ; it to you, you&#039 ; re gonna respect them, you&#039 ; re gonna do what they say to do. And the teachers&#039 ; attitude was, every child can learn and we&#039 ; re gonna make you learn, and your parents work with us. I don&#039 ; t know if we have that now. I really don&#039 ; t. But I just know that there are so many people who have achieved, in my opinion, significantly, who came from what we today call &quot ; poverty stricken&quot ; - all of us, I was poverty stricken for sure. I didn&#039 ; t know what poverty was, but I was poverty stricken. We didn&#039 ; t have any- nobody bought our books ; the state didn&#039 ; t buy out books. And I was thinkin&#039 ; about your uh, (pointing offscreen towards Ify) you&#039 ; re the scientist, chemist? Oh, wrong person, sorry about that! (pointing back towards Kaylee) (to Nathan) You saw me point at her just now, you didn&#039 ; t stop me! People ask, I have a- my oldest brother majored in chemistry at Dillard, my second brother majored in mathematics at Alabama State, my third brother actually went to Alabama State but he graduated from the University of California and he was an engineer and my fourth brother was an accountant. Now people ask, say why all y&#039 ; all went into math? I said because if mom and daddy bought one set of books this year, you were gon&#039 ; use those books the next year. So we had to take the books that the elder one had. My brother had chemistry books that&#039 ; s what I had to study, chemistry. Because nobody bought your books then. Now I don&#039 ; t know they still do that- well they don&#039 ; t use books anymore do they? Do they still use books in schools, or do they use all of the technology? Carpenter: I&#039 ; ve used books but, maybe that&#039 ; s outdated Ezimora: I think they use a mixture. Like colleges use textbooks but I know elementary schools and high schools that are using primarily technology now. Morse: Okay, well- I know they don&#039 ; t do a lot of homework anymore because, that&#039 ; s why I though they didn&#039 ; t use books and I thought the reason they were saying they didn&#039 ; t do homework was because kids didn&#039 ; t have the technology at home. I don&#039 ; t know, I&#039 ; ve been retired since 1994 and I haven&#039 ; t kept up a whole lot with the movement in the public schools with regard to stuff like that. But I tell ya, as I said, I became a scientist because my brothers were all scientists. Had to use their books. But I had a wonderful experience at Mobile County Training School, I can&#039 ; t think of a teacher over there who did not appear to care for every child that they taught and they were determined to make you not only to intellectually achieve, they wanted you to be mannerable, they wanted you to dress appropriately, they wanted to teach you healthy habits, it was just- it certainly was different from the schools I see now, I can tell you that. Carpenter: I&#039 ; m curious if you have any specific stories that, you know, that just stand out in your memory as moments where teachers kinda showed how much they cared about the students. Morse: Well-- You know, uh, corporal punishment was allowed during those days. And I&#039 ; m old fashioned enough now to believe that anybody who disciplined you loved you and tried to make you do better. I couldn&#039 ; t- the only episode I can remember, and I was angry about it because I was punished, one girl pushed another girl off of the chemistry stool, you know that tall. She didn&#039 ; t push her off of it, she pulled it from under her as she sat. That girl sat really on the floor and hurt herself. Well the girl didn&#039 ; t see who pushed her, she thought it was I. So, she swung and hit me. And of course, you know, my reaction was I hit back. And we had a fight. I didn&#039 ; t fight in school, but I fought then. Well, the chemistry teacher- nobody saw the incident but the three of us. The chemistry teacher took his meter stick and spanked our legs. We go back to homeroom ; he has told our homeroom teachers &quot ; yo&#039 ; little girls were in there fighting&quot ; she spanks our legs. Then she calls my mom and tells my mom I was at school fighting and mom spanked somethin&#039 ; more than my legs. But I&#039 ; m telling you, it was that kind of relationship you could have. I don&#039 ; t think that would have happened that way today. I don&#039 ; know. What do you think? Carpenter: No. Morse: I said, and I, to this day, I was so angry with my mother and with my homeroom teacher and with the chemistry teacher cause the girl who pulled the stool out got nothin&#039 ; . I couldn&#039 ; t convince them that- you asked me something I remember and I just thought I think of that as being funny but I know that those people cared about us and even though we got a spanking nobody viewed it as being abusive. Certainly, my mom didn&#039 ; t because she abused me worse than they did. Carpenter: I&#039 ; m curious also, and again I know you weren&#039 ; t from Plateau or Africatown, but if there were any specific places in the Africatown community or any stores, anything off-campus that you remember spending time at at any point. Morse: Think about what you&#039 ; re askin&#039 ; me. I came on the bus and I certainly wasn&#039 ; t gon&#039 ; miss that bus. I was goin&#039 ; back home. I was eleven years old, twelve, thirteen, fourteen. I wasn&#039 ; t allowed to go anywhere. I remember the Hopes had a store that you could see across the fence from Mobile County Training School and I remember- I didn&#039 ; t do this, probably cause I didn&#039 ; t have a nickel- but the children from Whitley school got out of school earlier than we did, like younger children. You know- do you know where the community center is now over there? I think that&#039 ; s where Whitley School used to be. They&#039 ; re located over in Prichard now but I think that&#039 ; s where the first Whitley School was and those little children would be gon&#039 ; home and we would maybe be out at PE or somewhere, and the kids would give those little kids a nickel through the fence cause we weren&#039 ; t allowed to go off campus, to go to that Hope Store- it was no more than three houses over and bring them a cookie or something back with their money and somebody told the kids, if somebody gives you money to go to that store, you take it and you go home. (laughing) So we finally had to stop doing that. But to answer your question, Hope Store is the only little store I know, and I never physically went into it because, as I said, we were not allowed to go off-campus and I was riding the bus. I got in that bus, I got there when the bus put us off. We did go through ; I will tell you this area- I don&#039 ; t know how the geography is now but Turner Road was where our bus put us off. That&#039 ; s where that old International Paper Company was. And we had to walk through the woods to get to the school. And same way, we had to walk back through the woods to get to Turner Road. So, the most, really even to this day, the most I know about Africatown&#039 ; s geography is probably that little bit because I was, we were obedient kids. We didn&#039 ; t run around, and we didn&#039 ; t have money to go sit down and eat, and if we had had it, I can&#039 ; t think of a place we would have been able to go to eat. Carpenter: And so, you said you graduated 1953 is that right? Morse: Mhmm. There&#039 ; s my yearbook. Carpenter: There&#039 ; s your yearbook right there. Where&#039 ; d you go after that? Morse: I went to downtown Mobile to what was then a branch of Alabama State teacher&#039 ; s college and I went two years there and that school is now Bishop State Community College. And after I graduated there then I went to its main campus in Montgomery, from which I graduated in 1957 as a secondary education teacher in mathematics and biology. Carpenter: And what was that experience for you like, in college? Morse: I guess just-- let me say it to you this way. It never occurred to me that I was poor and that I was not going to school and that I was not going to college. I mean, goin&#039 ; to school was what you did until you got a degree in my family. My parents were not educated but the same reason that we were going eight or ten miles to high school my parents would&#039 ; ve had to go 40 miles to high school from where they were born. They were not- and of course that whole generation before me they didn&#039 ; t have any transportation, they lived in the country. My mother actually did get her GED after she was married. My father never got any education above the seventh grade, but education was very critical and very important to my mother. And I think it had to do with the fact that it was very important to her mother. Now my mother was the, let&#039 ; s see-- my mother&#039 ; s the fifth of eight children. The first and second went to high school and then her mother died, and they were reared then by their father and a surrogate mother and nobody else went to high school. It appears to me, and my mom said this, that her mother was determined that her children were gonna be educated. My oldest uncle actually came to Mobile County Training School from the country because Mr. I.J Whitley was from Frankville, Alabama, and that&#039 ; s where my mother was from. Mr. Whitley&#039 ; s brother married my aunt. He said to my grandmother, according to her mother, your children need to come to Mobile to be educated so she sent that oldest one there. She sent the second one to Selma University and then she died. Nobody else in my mother&#039 ; s family went past that little school they have there in the country. But that gave my mother a dying thirst for her children to be educated. My dad had six children. I can remember doing his income taxes for him in about 1948 or &#039 ; 49 he had made $2,000 that year I was in the eighth grade doing his arithmetic. My mother never worked but all six of my mother&#039 ; s children, all five of my siblings and I, all of us were college educated. Because that&#039 ; s what you did! So, when you ask me how did it feel when you- it didn&#039 ; t feel anything. I&#039 ; m not trying to be funny ; I&#039 ; m just simply saying that&#039 ; s what I thought everybody else did. That was our routine. Carpenter: And you mentioned a couple times that your family didn&#039 ; t have a lot of means when you were growing up, but you never really felt poor and I&#039 ; m wondering if you could expand on that a little more. Morse: Well, I didn&#039 ; t say I didn&#039 ; t feel poor but everybody I knew was poor. I knew I didn&#039 ; t get all that I wanted. I know that daddy would patch your shoe &#039 ; til he couldn&#039 ; t patch it anymore. I&#039 ; m looking back in retrospect but at the time, that for me was normal. I know this, I never wanted for any major things like food, shelter. I never- but I might not have had the coat I wanted. But I always had a coat. And I&#039 ; m sure there&#039 ; s a lot of other African Americans who were a lot less deprived than we were at that time but in the neighborhood where I lived, hey, you were just like everybody else. It&#039 ; s difficult for you to understand how you don&#039 ; t know something is unusual if everybody around you is doin&#039 ; it. Carpenter: And so, when you went to the main Alabama State College in Montgomery what was it you majored in there, was it chemistry? Morse: What did I major in? I majored in education as a teacher, but my teaching field was mathematics and biology. Carpenter: And then after you graduated? Morse: I taught mathematics in the public schools for about 14 1/2 years. Carpenter: In Mobile? Morse: Mhmm. Here in Mobile Public Schools. I really was, I preferred to teach biology but it&#039 ; s ironic that I never taught it because they could never find a math teacher. They could always find a biology teacher. I could remember having a big argument with my principal, I taught math 4, 5 years and then a biology position opened and I asked for it, and he says no, he hired a brand new teacher for it. We fussed about that but he says &quot ; I can&#039 ; t find a math teacher&quot ; . That hasn&#039 ; t changed very much, has it. I don&#039 ; t think they can find a lot of teachers in the secondary schools now. But I, so, even though I have a master&#039 ; s degree in the teaching of biology, and I tell people this all of the time, I got my degree before they discovered DNA so don&#039 ; t ask me anything about biology, I don&#039 ; t know it. But I taught math for 14 ½ years and then- what did I do?- I went to- I took a job in the summer at Spring Hill College in an Upward Bound program and I taught math there and God blessed me, they asked me to come to teach over there. So, I worked over there first in, just doing remedial math for students who came there and then later on I did the chairmanship of the department of secondary education at the head of the teaching of math. I stayed at Spring Hill eight years. But at the time that I was over there I only had a master&#039 ; s degree and probably would have died there with a master&#039 ; s degree except that the state of Alabama made rules and regulations that made it very very unprofitable for Spring Hill College to continue their secondary ed programs. They still have, right now, elementary ed and early childhood but I still don&#039 ; t think they have secondary ed programs because when you do secondary education, that&#039 ; s diverse. I can- you gotta have every subject area covered. And I thought we did a magnificent job at Spring Hill College because we used the arts and science people to teach the subject areas and we used people like myself to teach at least some of the math but I taught how to teach math, I taught psychology and all of the teacher education but the state of Alabama came up with a rule that said for every secondary program that you offer, you have got to have a person with a PhD degree in that education. Not chemistry but chemistry education. Not history but history education. At Spring Hill College, we didn&#039 ; t have any of that so the president said he&#039 ; d have to spend more money hiring PhD degrees than he would have students because it was a very small school. So, after that I went back to the University of Alabama and I got a degree, but I didn&#039 ; t do the math- or the, uh- the biology. I got a PhD degree in what they offered then called educational research and statistics and I grabbed that because of the math and the teaching. Educational psychology, research and statistics, I&#039 ; m sorry. Carpenter: And what kind of drew you to the field of education? Morse: I wanted to be a nurse initially. There weren&#039 ; t too many options for African American women at that time. I wanted to be a nurse, I actually got a scholarship to Tuskegee where they offered nursing and I had a four-year scholarship with tuition but my family didn&#039 ; t have enough money to send me with the room and board. And then when somebody offered to try and get me the room and board, I was only fifteen and they said you had to be eighteen to enter the nursing program. So, what they told me was to go down to the college here and major in science that I was doin&#039 ; anyway, cause of the books and after three years to come to Tuskegee and they would take care of my expenses and whatever. And I guess I was stupid enough to think that after three years I was gonna do one more year and I was gonna be a nurse. At that time, it took five years to become a registered nurse. I don&#039 ; t know how long it takes now but I don&#039 ; t think it takes five years. But I already had three years of college education in teacher training and one more year I&#039 ; d be out and done. I wasn&#039 ; t about to go five years. But as it turns out teaching has been the most rewarding experience I could ever have. Because I love children and I think that I did some children some good, I don&#039 ; t know. I know that I&#039 ; ve had experiences where people tell me they could never do math well until I helped &#039 ; em with it but I don&#039 ; t know but I just loved it. If I had been told that I had to teach instead of going to nursing school, I would&#039 ; ve been very unhappy. If someone told me, you have to do that. But as it turned out, I&#039 ; m just as happy as I could be. Very happy. Carpenter: And throughout all of that did you stay in touch with your classmates? Morse: We used to have a class- I don&#039 ; t know whether we had the first one, but I think it might have been Plateau like the 20th or 25th I don&#039 ; t remember but after that we would have one every year or two. And then we started dying. And so, it got to the point that there were so few left we stopped having them. But what we do even now, if any of the classmates in this book (tapping yearbook) come to Mobile, Alabama from wherever they live, we get together and have lunch or something, breakfast or something. Most of us are- you know, most of my classmates are older. I&#039 ; m old too, I&#039 ; m 81 and I was only 15. So, they&#039 ; re like, 82, 83, 84. Yeah. Yeah, so we do have a lot of them who are not able to get around and to do well and then unfortunately there&#039 ; s- we have a large number that&#039 ; s deceased. But we still talk to each other and get together every now and then. (flipping through yearbook) But you know, we&#039 ; re not as active with our alumni as you are, I&#039 ; m sure. Carpenter: Ify, is there not enough battery? (Ify replies off-camera) oh nevermind, sorry. And it sounds like- and you said you were at the Alumni Association meeting, is that right? Are you involved with the-- Morse: Yeah, I&#039 ; m on the board of the Alumni Association. Carpenter: The board, that&#039 ; s it. Morse: I go to meetings and I was at the event that we had Friday after thanksgiving. Carpenter: I&#039 ; m curious since you kind of stayed in the mobile area and been involved at least with the school if you are able to speak- Morse: Stop, stop, let me stop you there. I lived in Mobile all of my life. I have not always been involved with the Alumni Association. I needed to feel that it merited my time and when it did then I joined it. I did do a contract, a consultancy with the Mobile Public Schools after I retired, and I did some work with some of the teachers over there, I think. And I volunteered and taught math for three weeks for a minute when one principal didn&#039 ; t have a math teacher and I went over there for her and taught until a teacher came, or she got one. So, that&#039 ; s been the most that I&#039 ; ve done with the school per say. Carpenter: I&#039 ; m curious if you are able at all to kind of, over the years if you&#039 ; ve seen that community in Plateau or Africatown change at all and I know you never lived there and didn&#039 ; t spend much time outside of school there as a student but-- Morse: And I can&#039 ; t say this, but I certainly believe this, I do know that the community has deteriorated physically. I want to believe it&#039 ; s because most of the people who were educated have not returned to that community but that&#039 ; s pretty much standard here, even in the city of Prichard. I was born in Prichard but most people who were born here don&#039 ; t live here anymore. My sister and I live here but all four of my siblings, my brothers left. They went to California because they had careers they couldn&#039 ; t get a job with. They didn&#039 ; t have any Black engineers around here when they graduated, or Black accountants, Black chemists. They didn&#039 ; t hire any of those, so my brothers left. I&#039 ; m going to believe that the same thing has happened with Plateau- Africatown. Carpenter: And one thing about- Morse: Have you heard some of the other people who are from there say that? Carpenter: We have talked with folks who are there and, yeah. I think folks have mentioned that there&#039 ; s just been, you know, people leaving the community. One thing I wanted to return to, I forget to ask earlier, I&#039 ; m curious at all how much you were aware of or how much the kind of history of Africatown was discussed while you were a student at County in terms of the original people and the Clotilda? Morse: I don&#039 ; t recall emphasis on Cudjo Lewis, the Clotilda. We had a lot of what we called then Black history taught to us. Every year we had to recite a poem and most of the poets were Black. Every year we had to attend what they called a cultural event down at the Theater and most of the performers were Black. So, we got that kind of Black heritage, so to speak. It wasn&#039 ; t History then, but it was our heritage. I can&#039 ; t remember a whole lot about the current status until John Smith became mayor of Prichard. I know it was in the mid-60&#039 ; s. And he started bringing up Africatown and the history. But no, to answer your question, one of the - did you interview Doris Allen Lee somebody did a- probably was that group, they have some interviews that an athletic school, sports school, somethin&#039 ; because they had so many athletes over there, Doris Lee was an athlete, that&#039 ; s why they interviewed her. But Doris Lee was my seatmate at Mobile County Training School. Do you know what a seatmate is? Do you remember those desk where the back of somebody&#039 ; s seat was the top of - have you ever seen where the back of their seat was the top of your desk, and two people sat. So, if we were coming down the row you might have 6 seats but that&#039 ; s 12, plus 2, that&#039 ; s 24 people. Because one, two sat there. Three, four sat there. Five, six sat there so if you got, you see what I&#039 ; m sayin? So, you had a seatmate and I sat right next to Doris Lee and I mention all a&#039 ; that to say that Doris is one of the descendants of Cudjoe Lewis. She- and I never knew that, and we were the best of friends in high school. So, I didn&#039 ; t get that history. Others may have gotten it, others may have known it, but I don&#039 ; t remember getting that. Carpenter: I think that&#039 ; s all I was kind of wanting to ask, (to Ify and Kaylee) I don&#039 ; t know if either of you two have any questions? (to Ms. Morse) Is there anything else you wanted to add? Morse: I just hope that, I hope that people can appreciate how people my age appreciate the kind of school that Mobile County Training School was. The relationship between the faculty, the staff, the families, the parents. Even the teachers who worked over there visited our homes in Prichard. You stayed absent ; they came over to see about you. That was a part of their job. So, that school along- I can&#039 ; t keep Ella Grant School out of it, I know that&#039 ; s not what we&#039 ; re here about. But Ella Grant School and Mobile County Training School gave me enough background and enough education to succeed anywhere that anybody can succeed. Carpenter: Ok, well thanks so much for your time, this was really great. Morse: You&#039 ; re welcome. video 0 https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=A_Beatrice_Morse.xml A_Beatrice_Morse.xml Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Beatrice Morse Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/7ddfb3f237c45536bf9c28a588cc43f3.png 759e22130c42a0abc8ec4411ce07f95d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. 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Title A name given to the resource Cemetery Subject The topic of the resource Story Map Images https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/cd5a1845f2b50b792fd9d22286e1e639.jpg 9c3206ec6f5e3eafd0f954db4a0999fe Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Story Map Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource IT Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource IT Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Clotilda Landing Site https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/abf20a904e9a407dd78d425aa2f90b4e.jpg f86d059aa4a02794e6c65bb316155662 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Story Map Photos Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource IT Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource IT Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Community Gardens Subject The topic of the resource Story Map Images https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/46705d727d2889bff76730963813813e.JPG f5730bb9bebf0c946056c56707747c59 Still Image A static visual representation. Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Cudjoe Lewis Gravesite-1 Subject The topic of the resource Picture of Cudjoe Lewis' Grave Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Chie Sakakibara Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2017.10.15 africatown https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/07b3bc06b91f5495a99975e1818ac411.jpg 3d7351aa533455f85108d3105887d3a9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Descendants Screening Description An account of the resource Descendants Screening Image Source A related resource from which the described resource is derived Netflix https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/a5787237282c03a8983886109e85fac9.png 4e4bdea30151fa32fe86719053b3f61b Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Nathan Carpenter Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Don Coleman OHMS Object This field contain the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file withing the OHMS Viewer). https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=A_Don_Coleman.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and/or Transcript and is what make the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka. 5.4 Unknown Date Don Coleman 00:42:00 Africatown January 2023 Oberlin College Library Don Coleman Nathan Carpenter 1:|11(3)|16(10)|27(8)|33(12)|41(11)|49(3)|60(12)|67(5)|77(10)|84(1)|95(9)|103(12)|110(3)|116(3)|122(6)|127(16)|134(5)|141(6)|148(9)|158(6)|170(4)|176(9)|183(18)|189(5)|195(5)|200(7)|206(15)|217(4)|228(3)|236(8)|245(13)|251(15)|264(4)|270(15)|280(2)|291(5)|296(5)|302(13)|311(12)|318(10)|329(4)|339(15) 0 https://youtu.be/aOdD3VfTe0s YouTube video 0 Reunion of Mobile County Training Students Over the years we have gone in so many different directions and still a lot of the… my, I guess, source, a lot of the motivation and energy emanates from that tie with going to Mobile County Training School so there’s like a continuing connection that doesn’t go away. Coleman discusses the reunion of the students that have attended Mobile County Training School. He hopes to reconnect with peers from his time attending the school. Mobile Country Training School ; Reunion Education ; Mobile County Training School 128 Coming in from the Outside From there, that was the beginning of my connection. It probably was a lot more positive than other communities I’ve been in. A lot of my friends were in home that both parents were in and so I sort of patched together role models from them and through them there and bonded with them, friends that I still stay in touch with from time to time, through the phone. Coleman talks about his experience moving to Africatown and the strong and positive impact that living in the town had left whilst growing up. Africatown ; Mobile ; New-York ; Public-Housing ; Role Models ; Single-Parent ; Virginia Africatown ; Community ; Mobile County Training School ; Moving to Africatown ; School 373 Community So going, moving to Happy Hill first was the first sense of stability, place we could afford and we know that next week at least we’d still have a place. And when I started going to school there I met people like Anderson Flen and Gary Simpson and they were kind of the leaders in that class and in that school. Coleman recalls the connections he had made with classmates in Mobile County Training School. Anderson Flenn ; Gary Simpson ; Happy-Hill ; School Africatown ; Community ; Connection ; Flenn, Anderson ; Happy Hill ; School ; Simpson, Gary 645 Role Models So, Charles Harding was probably one of the, my biggest role model, he was a paratrooper in the army and then he came- well, first of all, football star at county then he was a paratrooper in the army, and then he was the - wasn’t the head football coach but he was defensive coach and baseball coach. And he was very… intimidating but very fair. He expected you to do your best and would let you know when you wouldn’t. And when we, you know, and he would reward when you done your best Coleman talks about the role models within his time at school that helped him throughout his time there. Academics ; Baseball ; Charles Harding ; Charles Rhodes ; Coach ; Football ; Mr. Chapman ; Role-Models ; Statistician Harding, Charles ; Mr.Chapman ; Rhodes, Charles ; Role-Models ; School ; Sport Coaches 854 Counselor Inspired College Path .. She was responsible for getting me into that and that opened my eyes to college, and really motivated me to want to go to college. And I worked hard, but- actually it was my sophomore year that I got into the program- but I worked hard my junior and senior year. Coleman recalls his school counselor, Ms. Valeena McCans, who had helped him get into Clark University. Clark College ; College ; Ms. Valeena McCans ; SAT ; Upward Bound College ; McCans Valeena ; SAT ; Upward Bound 1012 Chitlin Circuit Chitlin Circuit, you had performers like James Brown, B.B. King, Tina Turner, they came to what- the Chitlin Circuit would be something that, it was a tour from, that started in Detroit, came through Chicago, down to New Orleans, Mobile, Atlanta, so it’s all the cities where there were significant Black populations and they performed in clubs, in nightclubs. Coleman talks about his mother and her job at a club during Chitlin Circuit. He also mentions her pursual of a nursing degree. Chitlin Circuit ; Clark College ; Nursing Chitlin Circuit ; College ; Nursing 1216 Attending Clark Atlanta University There, you, at Clark there was- you learned there was a whole first world, people from as far as New York, Chicago, Detroit, California, they came to the Atlanta University and a lot of things were happening at that time. Civil rights, the student movement and the civil rights era was pretty- it was growing and probably that was the first, student involvement was at its peak Coleman talks about his experience moving to Atlanta, Georgia to attend Clark Atlanta University. In addition to this Coleman discusses student movements and his participation. Atlanta ; Civil Rights ; College ; Marching ; Southern Georgia ; Student Movements ; Students Atlanta ; Civil Rights ; Participation ; Student Movements ; Students 1351 Student Activism We had at that time, the civil rights movement had some charismatic leaders like Hosea Williams, Andrew Young, they were all based in Atlanta and so that was, I was exposed to that and so it was motivating and I felt that it was making a difference and so they showed courage, which helped us to have courage Coleman discusses segregation in Mobile, Alabama and his participation in student activism in Georgia. Jim Crow ; Leaders ; March ; Mobile ; School ; Students Civil Rights ; Equality ; Jim Crow ; Leaders ; Mobile, Alabama ; School ; Segregation ; Student Activism 1725 After College And so I went, completed the law school, took the Georgia bar, and at the- probably halfway through my law school I had gotten a legal assistant job with Atlanta Legal Aid, and when I passed the bar, I got offered a staff attorney position at Atlanta Legal Aid. And that was in 19… 77 was when I passed the bar and got the offer shortly after I passed. Coleman discusses his experiences in Atlanta and his life after graduating. After college, Coleman pursued his law degree and got a position as a Legal Assistant in Atlanta Legal Aid. Atlanta ; Atlanta Legal Aid ; Career ; Economics ; Georgia Bar ; Greyhound Company ; Law School ; Legal Aid ; Legal Assistant ; Mobile ; Opportunity ; Social Work ; South ; Student Atlanta, Georgia ; Economic ; Greyhound Company ; Jobs and Opportunities ; Law School 1924 Career in Social Justice Yes. It was not, it was not from a material standpoint a rich community. It was a hard working community. And there were some wonderful people there. And a lot of the clients that I work with legal aid are in similar low income working, they’re the working poor. And I relate to them in the sense that that is the place that I came from and it’s a place that I wanted to lift up and give back to. Coleman discusses his motivation for going to law school and the connection it has when he was living in Africatown. Civil Rights Movement ; Community ; Justice ; Law School ; Legal aid ; Participation ; Social Justice ; Student Activism ; Civil Rights Movement ; Community ; Law ; Social Justice 2159 Community in Africatown But a lot of the, my friends’ family would me into their home, they would, you know, feed me, and they treated me no different than their children. So, you know and I would get along with one kid and I’d get along with their brother but that’s different. Coleman talks about friendships within the community and the closeness that there was between each other. Anderson Flen ; Community ; Community Kid ; Family ; Friends ; Network ; School ; Weekend Anderson, Flen ; Community ; Family ; Friendship ; Network Oral History 0:00 Carpenter: Okay. Great, so I&#039 ; m Nathan Carpenter with Oberlin College I&#039 ; m here with Ify Ezimora also from Oberlin College and Mr. Don Coleman, who&#039 ; s going to be giving an oral history interview today as part of the Africatown Oral History Digital Archive, so the collaboration between MEJAC and the Mobile County Training School Alumni Association. I just want to state at the beginning that Mr. Coleman&#039 ; s participation in the interview is 100% voluntary and that you&#039 ; re welcome to decline to answer any questions or to stop the interview at any time. And so with that, I guess I&#039 ; d like to start with kind of-- asking what this reunion means to you, what you&#039 ; re looking forward to this weekend. 0:57 Coleman: It&#039 ; s-- I guess it would be, connect. Reconnect with people that I had central ties with in the school and in the community. Over the years we have gone in so many different directions and still a lot of the-- my, I guess, source, a lot of the motivation and energy emanates from that tie with going to Mobile County Training School so there&#039 ; s like a continuing connection that doesn&#039 ; t go away. So it&#039 ; s time to see where- I guess to kind of gauge where I&#039 ; m at and also where everybody else is. 2:07 Carpenter: And so were you, did you attend the prom that was here, the class of &#039 ; 68? 2:13 Coleman: I did not. I was in many ways an outlier to some degree cause I stumbled across this community. I was born in Virginia, in Western Virginia and I came here from New York when I was probably about 7 or 8. And my mother, who was a single parent was born in Mobile and she attended Mobile County Training School as well. And, single parent there were struggles so, especially, particularly in New York and then we ended up coming back to Mobile, or she returned to Mobile and I was introduced to Mobile. It was- particularly being in Africatown was-- my initial connection was when I was probably about 14 or 15, cause I had attended other schools in the Mobile area and like I said, we had- it was me and my mother, there were financial challenges so we mainly lived either with relatives or we lived in boarding houses. My, when I was about 14 my mother became eligible for public housing and there was an area in Africatown right adjacent to it called the Happy Hills, and so it was a public project. I don&#039 ; t know- I think there&#039 ; s been some renovation out in that area so I don&#039 ; t know whether the original project is still there. That was the first place we had a fairly stable home and it happened to be in Happy Hill, which was adjacent to the Africatown- Africatown. From there, that was the beginning of my connection. It probably was a lot more positive than other communities I&#039 ; ve been in. A lot of my friends were in homes that both parents were in and so I sort of patched together role models from them and through them there and bonded with them, friends that I still stay in touch with from time to time, through the phone. That was the beginning because there were role models in the community while I didn&#039 ; t have any male role models, there were male role models in the community and in the school that I could draw my self-image and develop it, and friendship with the children. So, that to say no I didn&#039 ; t go to the prom because it was most of the kids there grew up and went to kindergarten, they went to first grade, elementary school together. And they were well bonded so I kind had to, kinda come from the outside and become part of the community. So it took them time to bond, and I went to some other proms but not to that one. (laughing) 6:12 Carpenter: Can you talk more about what that experience was like, kind of coming in from the outside, cause you also mentioned that it was a really positive community. 6:20 Coleman: Yeah, it was because literally, we lived in boarding houses and people from all different kind of backgrounds, mostly suspect and unstable backgrounds were there and there was a lot of sensitivity and security issues, living from week to week as far as whether you would be there the next week. So going, moving to Happy Hills first was the first sense of stability, place we could afford and we know that next week at least we&#039 ; d still have a place. And when I started going to school there I met people like Anderson Flen and Gary Simpson and they were kind of the leaders in that class and in that school. Anderson was the prototypical big man on campus, he was the star quarterback and he was star baseball player, so it was fortuitous that I bonded with him and from there I got more connection with the community. It sort of was a.. Endorsement, hey this guy&#039 ; s okay. So I got to, you know, spend time with his family, I got to spend the night, I had dinner, we would go around the neighborhood, I mean the neighborhood was probably five miles in radius, we walked everywhere so I got, through him I got to know a lot of the kids that I would not have known as soon, because of his stature. 8:33 Carpenter: And what was that experience kind of like, as high schoolers kind of walking around the neighborhood? You know, what kind of things would you do, who&#039 ; d you talk to, that kind of thing. 8:48 Coleman: It would... it would be-- I guess the other way that I got in was that I could learn things pretty quick and so, a lot of my interaction was, ok, I&#039 ; ll show you how to do this, this is what she said, here are my notes and stuff like that. And helped people with preparation for exams and things like that, so I had that kind of collateral to, I guess, negotiate with. And it can be- my mother and I were a household of two, it was the average household in that community was 4, 4 or 5, some of them had like 11 kids. So it could be kind of daunting, you know, they were well-bonded, so you always knew that you, while you could get close, you&#039 ; re not as close as the family. So it was, I always viewed myself as the outlier and I could socialize and communicate effectively and develop a relationship, but it was always a question of degree. It would never be the bond that they would have but it was comfortable, and for me it was better than what I&#039 ; d had in the past. 10:45 Carpenter: I&#039 ; m curious, one thing you mentioned is about the role models you found in the community and I was wondering if your comfortable talking about who some of those people were for you. 10:56 Coleman: Yeah, I don&#039 ; t have any problem. The biggest male role model were the coaches, the football, baseball coaches. 11:13 Carpenter: Were you on both teams? 11:15 Coleman: I was not on the football team, I was a statistician on the baseball team. That was my way in, more of an academic connection. Now I would play, coming up we would play tackle football in, here in the park and we&#039 ; d play baseball so I played with the, but not in the organized sense. So, Charles Harding was probably one of the, my biggest role model, he was a paratrooper in the army and then he came- well, first of all, football star at county then he was a paratrooper in the army, and then he was the - wasn&#039 ; t the head football coach but he was defensive coach and baseball coach. And he was very-- intimidating but very fair. He expected you to do your best and would let you know when you wouldn&#039 ; t. And when we, you know, and he would reward when you done your best. So, and he was- he stayed in shape, he was athletic up to his maybe 50&#039 ; s, 60&#039 ; s. So he was a very impressive personality. And then the head coach, Charles Rhodes, that R-H-O-D-E-S, he was the president in the sense that, he was the head football coach but there was a lot of-- he was probably the most academic of the personalities that I had in football, two civic courses, and it was very engaging academically, and I was impressed with him. And, let&#039 ; s see, Mr. Chapman, he also was talented academically, motivated me in his class. I took about two classes from him. And then there was a counselor, she was a female, Valeena (14:23), Ms. Valeena McCans and you probably, people either love her or hate her but she was probably the person that, I mean I really didn&#039 ; t think about college until maybe my junior year, late junior year. I went to this program, she was responsible for getting me into a college preparatory program, summer program, called Upward Bound. And from there I, I mean I&#039 ; ve always been, I love to read and I love to debate, so it was instinctive but it was not a-- I didn&#039 ; t see a future in it. And that experience, she was responsible for getting me into that and that opened my eyes to college, and really motivated me to want to go to college. And I worked hard, but- actually it was my sophomore year that I got into the program- but I worked hard my junior and senior year. Before that I was pretty average, I was better than- I was average and sometimes better than average when I had a real interest in the subject. But after that experience, I committed more intensely to developing my academics and ended up in my senior year, I had the highest SAT score in the history of the school and she had a lot to do with that, I mean, she kept me on task and exposed me to, she helped me through the application process. Cause my mother, basically, she worked hard but it was not- it was more labor intensive and she worked at a club, it was basically- I don&#039 ; t know if you&#039 ; ve heard of the Chitlin Circuit? You should google the Chitlin Circuit but, through the Chitlin- Chitlin Circuit, you had performers like James Brown, B.B. King, Tina Turner, they came to what- the Chitlin Circuit would be something that, it was a tour from, that started in Detroit, came through Chicago, down to New Orleans, Mobile, Atlanta, so it&#039 ; s all the cities where there were significant Black populations and they performed in clubs, in nightclubs. My mother worked as a waitress at one of the clubs- at the only club in Mobile that was part of the Chitlin Circuit. But it&#039 ; s pretty historical cause a lot of your blues icons and rhythm- rhythm and blues icons came through that circuit. But anyway, she did not, I mean she had like one year of college but she didn&#039 ; t finish. When I got through my senior year and graduated, I got a full scholarship to Clark College in Atlanta, she went back to school and she came out with a nursing degree. So, a lot of good things happened from my having attended school in that community. 19:02 Carpenter: So it sounds like a lot of your mentorship you found through the school, is that right? 19:11 Coleman: Oh, definitely. There were, the students there were pretty close, bonded, families, probably their parents had bonded as classmates the generation before so there was a really tight community bond there and basically, you were raised by the community cause if something happened on this side that you did, eventually everybody would know. And there would be those that would step in and say &quot ; no, don&#039 ; t do that.&quot ; So it was, in a sense, a pretty open community. 20:09 Carpenter: So then, you- Clark College, is that what you said? 20:12 Coleman: Yeah, it was- it&#039 ; s Clark Atlanta. Clark Atlanta University. 20:16 Carpenter: Clark Atlanta University. What was that like? 20:19 Coleman: It was a whole new world. Cause Atlanta, about a couple years after Atlanta exploded. The counselor, Ms. McCans, she was- I had gotten scholarship offers from Tuskegee, Billard, Talladega, and Clark College and, I was undecided as to where I wanted to go and she helped, she led me to qualify for full scholarship. But Atlanta is a place that is going to grow, and when I started at Clark it was about the same time Atlanta really, it started blossoming from a- it was always a big southern town but it exploded into a city, you know. There, you, at Clark there was- you learned there was a whole first world, people from as far as New York, Chicago, Detroit, California, they came to the Atlanta University and a lot of things were happening at that time. Civil rights, the student movement and the civil rights era was pretty- it was growing and probably that was the first, student involvement was at its peak. And we did, we did the marching and did some bus riding to some areas in southern Georgia, so it was a really exciting, challenging time. 22:35 Carpenter: Yeah what was that like, kind of participating in those student movements? 22:39 Coleman: It - I would say it, our- in a way it was unique in the sense that it was driven by the students and the, well, when- from my perspective, it was a liberating time because when I went, when I came- I came from New York to Mobile. I had no idea about Jim Crow, didn&#039 ; t know anything about riding on the bus, didn&#039 ; t know about separate entrances, separate drinking water fountains, until I hit Mobile and that was like a brick wall. And I basically had to have a guide to say, when my grandmother visited had to be the person to teach me socially you don&#039 ; t wanna do that, you gotta do this. And it always was irritating because I couldn&#039 ; t do what I was used to you know, the equal footing. And my grandmother was a, she was a maid for private homes and there were times when she would come home and she worked for, she worked for this woman who was in her thirties and my grandmother was in her fifties, and she would come home so many times, just hurt sometimes in the way how she was spoken to, how she was treated. And that stayed with me a good while. So when I got to Atlanta and I met other people that had different experiences that were more equalizing, it was like I had stepped into another world and we - we had at that time, the civil rights movement had some charismatic leaders like Hosea Williams, Andrew Young, they were all based in Atlanta and so that was, I was exposed to that and so it was motivating and I felt that it was making a difference and so they showed courage, which helped us to have courage. So we would go on these, we would go to South Georgia, there was- a lot of times they had to do with someone&#039 ; s wrongfully imprisoned. And we would go and we would march and it would be frightening but at the same time knowing that you had so many people that believed the same thing you did, it was encouraging at the same time. So I was glad that I had the opportunity to- to live and attend school at that time and have that experience. 27:13 Coleman: Were you in touch with any of your Mobile County Training School Classmates during that time? 27:19 Coleman: Flen. Probably has been the main connection for probably the majority of people that are here today, this weekend for the reunion. To me it was more, he was a surrogate brother because it was- I was the only child for most of the time until I went to college. And he, I stayed in touch with him from the moment he went to Virginia to school and we stayed in touch and then he moved to Atlanta and we have always maintained contact. And there&#039 ; s a couple people from Mobile that when I come back I would make sure I would look them up and get in contact with either them or their parents, cause a lot of times they&#039 ; d be out somewhere out of Mobile but the parents, siblings stay in direct contact with each other. 28:49 Carpenter: So you decided to stay in Atlanta? After college. 28:53 Coleman: Yeah, I wanted to stay south and Atlanta was an oasis. 29:00 Carpenter: In what way? 29:02 Coleman: In as far as career opportunity and personal growth. I, when I graduated- here, my junior year I had a friend who was a couple years ahead of me, he had went to Alabama State, graduated with good credentials, and he applied for a job in Mobile at the Greyhound company and he was a college graduate, and the only thing they offered him was a maintenance job. And that convinced me, I wanna stay south but not wanna go back there. And so Atlanta was, Atlanta really was boomin&#039 ; in the seventies and even more today and still is, in different aspects. 30:08 Carpenter: So what was kind of your career trajectory? 30:13 Coleman: I was a, like most students I changed my major a couple times. I went in as a psychologist major and I switched to sociology, and then at the end of my four years I counted up- I ended up with a diploma- a degree in economics. So I worked with the US Labor Department for about... year and a half but at the same time I was going to night law school. And so I went, completed the law school, took the Georgia bar, and at the- probably halfway through my law school I had gotten a legal assistant job with Atlanta Legal Aid, and when I passed the bar, I got offered a staff attorney position at Atlanta Legal Aid. And that was in 19-- 77 was when I passed the bar and got the offer shortly after I passed. And I&#039 ; ve been there since then. I currently am co-manager of their, the county office. I guess in certain ways I still do social work but in the legal context. 32:02 Carpenter: Yeah, what pulled you to go to law school and do the work that you do? 32:08 Coleman: Well, I can&#039 ; t- it was, growing up in the community that I did- 32:19 Carpenter: And do you mean Africatown? 32:21 Coleman: Yes. It was not, it was not from a material standpoint a rich community. It was a hard-working community. And there were some wonderful people there. And a lot of the clients that I work with legal aid are in similar low income working, they&#039 ; re the working poor. And I relate to them in the sense that that is the place that I came from and it&#039 ; s a place that I wanted to lift up and give back to. I also, probably during my most impressionable years, John F. Kennedy became president. And the most memorable thing I remember was, it&#039 ; s not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country, to paraphrase that. And I took that to heart. And I always looked at law school as being a way to improve social justice, but in a more empowering way. Because as a social worker you give people food to live for a day but it doesn&#039 ; t give people- feel a sense of empowerment that there is justice. I think that&#039 ; s-- significant. 34:11 Carpenter: And you feel like that&#039 ; s tied at all to your- the work you did during the Civil Rights Movement in college? Tied to that work for social justice? 34:21 Coleman: Yeah, and the role I also had because, but for the grace of God I could be in that working poor population. And the, you know our most valuable resource is our human resources and the more you can improve that the more you improve your community. So it&#039 ; s a, it&#039 ; s really was a, maybe a frustrated social worker, I mean from a legal standpoint. But that was, once I got into law I knew I didn&#039 ; t want a job where I had to chase the dollar, I wanted to be able to make a difference in people lives even if it&#039 ; s just for that moment, and that was a way to do it. And I, and I think it&#039 ; s a... continuation of the work that I did when I was a student at Clark College and the participation that I had in the Civil Rights Movement. 35:39 Carpenter: You keep returning to this idea of the community within Africatown and how strong that was, I was wondering if you could think of just, a story that kind of shows what that experience was like for you? 35:57 Coleman: Well, I, my mother was a single working parent. And I was a teenager, active and adventurous, and rebellious. That some point in time happens with everyone. The, my mother would go to work. She&#039 ; d go to work at 7 in the evening and she&#039 ; d come home maybe 4 in the morning. So I would have full run of the house or the community during that time. A lot of times I would go to my friend&#039 ; s house, have dinner there. I can&#039 ; t think of the number of times I spent the night over at Anderson&#039 ; s house. I was probably the poster child for latchkey, but I could kind of, I would go out and -- (laughs) that&#039 ; s a different story. But a lot of the, my friends&#039 ; family would welcome me into their home, they would, you know, feed me, and they treated me no different than their children. So, you know and I would get along with one kid and I&#039 ; d get along with their brother but that&#039 ; s different. But it was a common place for me because I probably was not the normal-- my family was not the normal family in that community. There usually were two parents and I had a unique experience, you&#039 ; ll probably see as stories go. 38:30 Carpenter: And you said you&#039 ; d slept sometimes at school? Is that what you said? 38:32 Coleman: Well, I mean, I definitely got home before my mom got home. I would go, like I would go to Flen&#039 ; s house and stay a couple days late, and then I would come home by the time my mom got home. And I would, sometimes I would, you know, I came from, I had relatives in other parts of the city. I would go- if I had a bike, which I did for most of the time, I would ride 20 miles to the other side of town and spend the evening there and then come back. But mainly, as I got older I got more friends in the community and I stayed around that community for the last two years of school. But it was, there probably was a network for me of about a dozen families that I could drop by their house and play and hang around until dinnertime and have dinner. It was a, I probably was a community kid. (laughs) So that&#039 ; s why I value that community experience. 40:15 Carpenter: I don&#039 ; t wanna take up too much of your time so I don&#039 ; t know if there&#039 ; s anything you wanna add, anything we&#039 ; ve talked about, anything about the weekend-- anything more generally... 40:25 Coleman: Well it&#039 ; s gonna be, it&#039 ; s kinda like you&#039 ; ve been on a long journey now you wanna see who made it back, what they&#039 ; re doing. So I-- I&#039 ; m going to relish cause I don&#039 ; t know how many other times we&#039 ; ll have the opportunity but I&#039 ; m gonna relish the weekend, and connect up and communicate with as many people as I can, just it&#039 ; s-- it&#039 ; s kind of like reconciling your present perception with your memory. So i&#039 ; m gonna spend that time, trying just to reconcile, get a balanced perspective. Because when we graduated our perspective is totally different from what we have now. So it&#039 ; ll be good just to catch up with people. 41:34 Carpenter: Is that bringing up stuff for you too, in terms of reconciling, you know, where you&#039 ; re at now versus where you were 50 years ago? 41:41 Coleman: Yeah. Yeah. It sort of-- sort of a review in sense, you know. 41:56 Carpenter: Cool. Alright, well thank you so much for your time this was awesome. 41:58 Coleman: My pleasure. video 0 https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=A_Don_Coleman.xml A_Don_Coleman.xml Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Don Coleman Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/a0dcf32d8d0666fe728511131e8b1f2d.png 4e4bdea30151fa32fe86719053b3f61b Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Don Coleman Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Don Coleman https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/95d2ed0df6e402ca0f069e56f13538af.png 96899c17e8642c27fa174c7f63333f94 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Dru Description An account of the resource Self-Image Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Dru https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/a38dd43b368d8a0f9f014291e7ca0f23.png b0ad3028b8d4cf4e92ff54b1a05a9542 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Eli Presberg Description An account of the resource Self Image Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Eli Presberg https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/9c5ddf9dfad6cd9b0fa2379419293fb4.jpg 603d0589f1e2d4887816d295821451b1 Person An individual. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photo Physical Dimensions The actual physical size of the original image ‪4,160 x 5,906‬ Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Emily Aguilar Subject The topic of the resource Research Collaborator Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Jacob Strauss Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource Oct 20, 2022 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Oberlin College Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource Photograph https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/c5f7dd6ec10e84c58b8abc66ee2ca88f.JPG 79cccea9e185e7ba8c469b9e1fb0b89a https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/af5babede3685164377db68bfb949aec.JPG 8c27f209764994e3fedb03008413c34e https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/f3d50d8d8cb10be51ed8ee9f62b7aa65.JPG de0406ba75f4c27292c880d43f5bf08d Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource First Hopewell Baptist Church Description An account of the resource (Photo taken 2019) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Nathan Carpenter, Santi Roman https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/6a42cf532d0ba644010ad06694a1fab2.png 166b3fa920b802921d64c6bfaa7baa0f Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Nathan Carpenter Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Gloria Giles Nault OHMS Object This field contain the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file withing the OHMS Viewer). https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=Interview90798.xml Interview Keyword This field adds keywords to the Omeka Oral History Item Type. Keywords are included in the OHMS XML, this field in Omeka will allow for full data migration between OHMS XML and the Omeka record. Reunion OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and/or Transcript and is what make the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka. 5.4 Gloria Giles Nault Africatown Oberlin College Library Hawaii Nursing. Native American Love Stories Mobile County Training School Reunion Gloria Giles Nault Nathan Carpenter 1:|23(8)|34(3)|53(11)|75(6)|97(11)|109(15)|129(8)|144(1)|161(4)|176(11)|187(2)|209(8)|224(14)|236(12)|256(1)|268(12)|277(15)|290(6)|304(7)|321(8)|336(15)|356(5)|369(1)|389(2)|409(2)|418(14)|438(10)|448(8)|467(6)|489(9)|499(12)|511(7)|522(12)|533(7)|549(10) 0 https://youtu.be/B8eG7Js8LiI YouTube video 38 Family History in Africatown My father used to steal persimmons from Uncle Cudjo. So, you know they were long there. And I'm told that when the Africans were released there, they kind of helped them understand what it's like in America and help them to integrate themselves and help create Africatown. Giles talks about the long history of her family in the area and tells stories of her father growing up in Africatown, playing tricks on ladies and Cudjo Lewis. Africatown ; Cudjo ; Cudjo Lewis ; Free Men of Color ; Henry Williams ; Persimmons Jokes. ; Lewis, Cudjo ; Native American ; Stories. 286 Learning to Read at MCTS Oh, it was great, it was a time for me of freedom. I had very, very strict parents so going to school was like my release. Even though there was lots of rules at school that kept us straight, but I liked learning. Giles talks about her experience at MCTS and being inspired by Mr. Danny while learning to read. MCTS ; Mocotian ; Mr. Danny ; Ph.D. Education. ; Freedom. ; Learning. ; Mobile County Training School ; PhD degree ; Reading. 445 The Role of Church My father's father was one of the people that started Yorktown Baptist Church under a grapevine, and so my father continued there, and when he married my mother, she had to agree that the children would go to his church. So, we would attend his church and afterwards then we had to go to her church until it was out. Giles talks about how church congregations supported children learning to speak publicly and were a source of family connections. Christ ; Church ; congregation ; Family connections ; Sunday ; Toastmasters ; Yorktown ; Yorktown Baptist Baptist Church ; Childhood ; Easter. ; Education. ; Learning. ; Public speaking. ; Speech. ; Toastmasters International 570 High School Dance and Travel It was another opening into a whole new world of dance, so I was able to perform. I also joined the La Rosa Roja Club, and I had never been in a club, and we traveled. We went to Miami. Unfortunately that was where I went every summer. Giles talks about being involved in dance at MCTS and traveling to Miami with her sisters during the summer. Bus ; club ; Greyhound ; Integrate ; La Rosa Roja Club ; Mardi Gras ; Martin Luther King ; Miami ; Summer Childhood ; Clubs. ; Dance ; Dancing ; Greyhound buses ; King, Martin Luther, Jr., 1929-1968. ; Mardi Gras (Festival) ; Miami (Fla.) ; Mobile County Training School ; Plateau (Mobile, Ala.) ; Rhode Island. ; Summer. ; Travel. ; Tuskegee Institute. 732 Higher Education, Career, and Adult Life I went to medical college at Georgia to get my B.S. in nursing. After I got my B.S.N., I decided to stay there and get my masters. Then I wanted to go on and get my doctorate in cardiology or thoracic nursing, but I got a better invitation, to get married. Giles talks about her higher education journey in nursing, meeting her husband, and moving to Hawai'i. B.S.N. ; Black student ; Comissioner of Pensions and Security ; Curriculum and Instruction ; Doctorate ; Gary Cooper ; graduation ; Hawai'i ; Higher Education Administration ; Jay Cooper ; Marriage ; Masters ; Mastin School of Nursing ; mayor ; medical college ; Nurse ; nursing school ; PhD ; Practicing ; Protest ; Providence School of Nursing ; Thoracic nursing Cardiology. ; Civil rights movement. ; Communication. ; Education. ; Educational media ; Educators. ; Fishing. ; Hawaii ; Kress ; Learning. ; Minister ; Mobile (Ala.) ; Non-verbal communication. ; Nursing. ; PhD degree ; Protest and social movements ; Statistics. ; Student ; Teacher ; University of Connecticut ; University of South Alabama 1307 Researching Africatown Love Stories The first time I came back was with a grant from the National Endowment for Humanities, and that was to do research in Mobi- in Africatown, and so I recorded love stories and philosophies of people that were there. Giles talks about returning to Africatown to research and write a book about love stories, and recounts her own parents' love story. Africatown ; book ; Church ; Minority ; National Endowment for Humanities ; Parents ; Philosophies ; pregnant ; Sandbar ; secret ; Water Community ; Love stories. ; Marriage. ; National Endowment for the Humanities. ; Pregnancy. ; Trust. ; Writing. 1575 Native American Family and Mommees She didn't want us to become little wild Native American kids. Because she thought it was tough enough to be a descendant of one minority, but to have the practices and be the descendants of two minorities would be too difficult. Giles talks about growing up without Native American practices but still remaining very close to her Native American family and being watched over by all the aunties and mommees. Africatown ; Aunt Rita ; Hawai'i ; Minority ; Momma ; Momma Rosie ; Mommee ; Mothers ; Practices ; Teachings Childhood ; Descendants ; Hawaii ; Native American 1718 MCTS Reunion 2018 I was hesitant because I thought no one would recognize me and I wouldn't recognize them. But I did, and so I'm so excited, yeah. It's great being back, you know, and hugging and just holding the people that I was so close to for eighteen years of my life. Giles talks about how wonderful it was to see everybody from MCTS at the 50th reunion of the class of 1968. Anderson Flen ; Christine ; classmates ; Creole ; Hawai'i ; MCTS newsletters ; memories ; Prom ; reunion ; Sandra Communication. ; Community ; Dance ; Hawaii ; Marriage. ; Mobile County Training School 1884 Family Focused Childhood and Future As a kid, I just knew it was, everybody was too strict and too- too much watching us- but looking back, it was wonderful growing up being secure, not having the fears that kids can have now, and just knowing you were loved. Giles talks about having a childhood that was prosperous, despite not having much money, the love of the neighborhood and family, and continuing her research in Hawai'i. Aloha ; Breath ; Family connections ; Hawai'i ; Home ; Leftovers ; Love ; Ohana ; Prosperous ; Sharing ; Spirit Childhood ; Family. ; Fishing. ; Hawaii ; Hospitality. ; Love. ; Quilting. ; Stories. ; Writing. Oral History (00:00) Nathan Carpenter: I am Nathan Carpenter with Oberlin College, I&#039 ; m here with Ify Ezimora and Santiago Roman, both from Oberlin College, and here with Ms. Gloria Giles, is that? (00:09) Gloria Giles: Nault. Carpenter: What is it? Giles: Giles Nault.  Carpenter: Nault, Dr. Gloria Giles Nault, who&#039 ; s going to be participating in an oral history interview for the Africatown digital archive. Um, it is November 24th, we&#039 ; re at the Battle House Hotel in Mobile, Alabama. I just wanna say for the camera as well that your participation in the interview is voluntary, you can choose to not respond to any question, you can choose to end the interview at any point. I just wanted to clarify that before we begin. Carpenter: So I guess to get started, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about your family history and what you know of it as it pertains to Africatown or more generally as well. Giles: Okay, my family were called Free Men of Color. And there were about six or eight families, and if you wish (01:00), I could give you the whole list of all the Free Men of Color that relate to me and my family. The Adams and the Giles were first cousins because our great-grandmothers were Native American women who married other men and developed the two families. I was told by Mr. Henry Williams that my family used to make furniture and ship it back to Europe inlaid with Mother-of-Pearl long before even slavery. So, it&#039 ; s a Native American based family.  Carpenter: So do you know how far back your family goes in Africatown specifically? Giles: oh, let&#039 ; s see how many generations did my brother- My brother did a whole scan of (02:00), he did a lot of research, and he went back about eight generations and we were still there. Um, my father used to steal persimmons from Uncle Cudjo. So, you know they were long there. And I&#039 ; m told that when the Africans were released there, they kind of helped them understand what it&#039 ; s like in America and help them to integrate themselves and help create Africatown. Carpenter: So, it&#039 ; s one of those stories that you heard growing up, the persimmons and all that? Yeah? Giles: Yeah, lots of good stories like that, yeah. My father was mmm, now I would say precocious, back then he was considered very naughty. Carpenter: Mhm, in what way? Giles: He liked to play jokes. Carpenter: Uh-huh.  Like when he was a young boy, he wanted to see the ankles of the ladies because they wore long skirts, and in the evening, the ladies (03:00) would all get their pots and they&#039 ; d carry it on their heads to go and get water in the creek, and so he took a black stocking and stuffed it like a snake, put it across the path, and as the ladies went down to get the water he didn&#039 ; t do anything, but when they were coming back he&#039 ; d pull the snake across the path, and the ladies pulled up their skirts to run, and he was so happy he started laughing, so he got caught. Carpenter: Mhm. Giles: And ah, all kinds of little stories like that, and they said that his father used to make him lay on the steps and he would take the side of a handsaw and spank him with it because of all the things he did, so then that was a celebration. And it continued until the end of his life, playing tricks and doing things like that. Carpenter: And you said that he knew Cudjo Lewis, is that right? Giles: Yes, he did. Carpenter: Did he talk about that a lot? Giles: Not very much,  except (04:00), you know, how he talked? He put an &#039 ; e&#039 ; on the end of everything, like &quot ; I gonna eatee you&quot ; . And, um, they were in his persimmon tree, and he was talking to his animals, and he looked at the pig and said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m going to eatee you,&quot ; and he looked at the chicken and said, &quot ; I&#039 ; m going to eatee you,&quot ; and there was a pigeon and he said, &quot ; Oh don&#039 ; t you laugh over dere &#039 ; cause I&#039 ; m gonna eatee you, too,&quot ; and they (my father and his friend in the tree) started laughing, and he (Uncle Cudjo) got the pitchfork and he kept them in the tree from that day &#039 ; til the next morning. Carpenter: Oh my goodness. Giles: Yeah. (laughing) So they learned their lesson until they decided to steal his watermelons. Carpenter: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Giles: Yeah. Carpenter: So, then, did you have lots of family come through Mobile County Training School as well then? Giles: Well, all my brother and sisters. I have a brother.  Well, my younger sister didn&#039 ; t because that was when the schools were divided (05:00)- but an older brother, I brought his Mocotian (school year book) to be seen here. And two sisters, I was the last one in 1968. Carpenter: And what was- I don&#039 ; t know, what was your experience at Mobile County Training School? Giles: Oh, it was great, it was a time for me of freedom. I had very, very strict parents so going to school was like my release. Even though there was lots of rules at school that kept us straight, but I liked learning. But, originally I was a child that was challenged. I was considered my mother&#039 ; s slow-child, and it was very difficult for me to read. And no matter how I tried, I could not read. But and so people would say, &quot ; Oh, Gloria can&#039 ; t read,&quot ; (06:00) and I continued to remember that, but there was one man we call Mr. Danny, and he would come over every day and sit with me, and he would say, &quot ; Gloria, you can read.&quot ; And we would try and try and try every day. And finally when I was in the sixth grade I was looking out the window, and I was in the D-reading group, um, and I was thinking about what Mr. Danny told me and I said, &quot ; Today I can read.&quot ; I went to my reading group, I read the D-book ; I went from that day reading in the D-reading group to reading at the college level because I finally believed it. And I promised myself that day that I would get the highest degree I could. And I did. Carpenter: What degree was that? Giles: Ph.D. Carpenter: Okay. Giles: Yeah. Carpenter: I&#039 ; m curious, so that kind of- as we interview folks, we hear about, kind of, these figures in the community (07:00) who were so, kind of, instrumental in people&#039 ; s school experiences and childhood more generally. It was Mr. Danny, you said was what it was? Giles: Yes, he was very significant. His name was Danny Wilson, but we called people by their first name and just put Mr. or Mrs. in front it, or Auntie, or mommee. I had lots of mommies.  Carpenter: Were there other folks like Mr. Danny in the community who were kind of role models or inspirations for you? Giles: Lots were in the church, and my parents. In the church, we started speaking publicly, as very, very tiny kids. We would get an Easter speech, and the first Easter speech was &quot ; Christ Rose on Easter Morning&quot ; . And every child had that speech, but it didn&#039 ; t matter to the congregation. Each child was applauded (08:00), and they&#039 ; d go, (clapping) &quot ; Yeah, sister, yeah, yeah.&quot ; And, you know, I remember that as being three years old and saying something that everybody approved of. And from there, I studied and continued to speak, enter all the oratorical contests, and I became president of Toastmasters, and I became one of the national champions as a result. Carpenter: Was this in Union Baptist, was that the church? Giles: Yorktown Baptist. Carpenter: Yorktown. Yorktown Baptist. Giles: My father&#039 ; s father was one of the people that started Yorktown Baptist Church under a grapevine, and so my father continued there, and when he married my mother, she had to agree that the children would go to his church. So, we would attend his church and afterwards then we had to go to her church until it was out. So Sunday, from Sunday school &#039 ; til about three was church. Too long, but the first (09:00) Sunday was the best because we got ice cream after church. So, we loved that time. Carpenter: And so, this sounds like there was a strong sense of family connection to Yorktown. Is that right? Giles: Yes, very much, very much. Every holiday, everything was associated with there, and supporting you, speaking publicly, and learning. Carpenter: So then, after you went to Mobile Country Training School and you graduated, why don&#039 ; t you first- what kinds of things were you involved in at the school during high school? Giles: We had a dance class, and if you were selected to be in this dance class, then you performed at half-times(at football games) and different events for the communities. For instance, during Mardi Gras, at the different balls (10:00) you performed, and it was wonderful because my mother loved dancing and one of the things that she had my father to agree to was that he would not stop her from dancing because she liked to dance. But for some reason, she allowed (my brother and sisters) everybody to dance but me. But when Mrs. Roberts got permission for me to dance, it was a first for me, and it was another opening into a whole new world of dance,  so I was able to perform. I also joined the La Rosa Roja Club, and I had never been in a club, and we traveled. We went to Miami. Unfortunately that was where I went every summer because when we were children my mother said she wanted us to go to the four corners of the United States so she could visit. So there was a sister in Miami. Each year I was put on a bus starting at age eight (11:00), and I was responsible for my sister and my two nieces, and we would ride forty-eight hours on the Greyhound bus to Miami, Florida to my sister. And spend a month in Miami making new friends there and then coming back to Plateau. Carpenter: Did you all travel to other places together? Giles: One of my sisters first went to Miami, and later one went to Rhode Island, and so then I went to Rhode Island. My sister was asked by Martin Luther King to go there because they wanted someone to come and integrate the schools, and so she went there. Carpenter: And so, did they know each other? Your sister and Martin Luther King? Giles: No, he called Tuskegee Institute, and they recommended her there, and so then he called her. Carpenter: I&#039 ; m curious, you mentioned that experience of dance in high school. You said it opened up the world of dance for you? Giles: Yes. Carpenter: Is that something that remains important (12:00) for you? Giles: Important and fun. Last night was such fun dancing. Unfortunately I married a non-dancer.  Carpenter: And so then after Mobile County Training School, what did you do next after you graduated? Giles: Next,  When we were born, our mother told us what we were going to become. My brother was to become a minister ; my sister, there were two before me, the first one, was to become a teacher ; to the next one she said, &quot ; You&#039 ; re vivacious, so I&#039 ; m gonna leave it up to you ; &quot ; and she told me to become a nurse. So, I knew that&#039 ; s what I would do. After graduation from high school, I went to Mastin School of Nursing, and I was the first Black to be admitted to that school. Carpenter: So, at that time, I guess, there were a lot of students (13:00) involved with the civil rights movement around the country. Is that something that- that you were involved with as well at that time? Giles: I have a writing that I can share with you, I can mail it to you later, but my sister was interested in it. But here in Mobile, people didn&#039 ; t protest too much against making efforts. So, one day my sister decided that she would take me to Kress after the big incident where the kids sat on the stools to order food in Kress- in another city- and were attacked. So she decided one day when she was allowed to take me to the dentist on the bus that we would come back to town and go to Kress and sit on the stools and have a hot dog.  I was young, so I didn&#039 ; t know the significance of it. For me, it was just the most exciting day that my big sister took me on an adventure (14:00) that my mother had never taken me on because prior to that my mother would take us shopping, and she would buy a hot dog from Woolworth but not sit or anything, we had to stand outside the building and eat it because at that time we were not allowed to even sit in the park or walk through it.  Carpenter: And so, how old were you when your sister took you to get the hot dog? Giles: Hmm, I had to be around seven. Carpenter: Okay. And so then you mentioned, you said, you were the only Black student in the nursing school? Giles: Yes. Carpenter: What was that experience like for you? Giles: Well, it was great because I just blended in and was accepted. There were some events that they didn&#039 ; t understand: for instance, I would go walking in the neighborhood, and I was called in by the director and told it was very unsafe (15:00), and I had to explain to her that that was a community of educators, and friends of my parents, friends of my sisters, and that I had an aunt there. It was fine to walk in that community. But being the first African-American for them to have there, they didn&#039 ; t realize that it was okay for me even though they didn&#039 ; t feel it was secure for the other students. So, it was different for them, that was a little learning curve. Carpenter: Mhm. And so after nursing school, did you go, did you start practicing as a nurse? Giles: I worked for a year, with the cardiologist that taught us cardiology, in  cardiac catheterizations. And then I went to medical college at Georgia to get my B.S. in nursing. After I got my B.S.N., I (16:00) decided to stay there and get my masters. Then I wanted to go on and get my doctorate in cardiology or thoracic nursing, but I got a better invitation, to get married.  I stopped after my B.S.N. And after I got married I got my masters at University of South Alabama. At that time there were only two buildings and they were just starting it. It was great ; I did get my masters, but I got it in Educational Media with an emphasis on Non-Verbal Communication in Nursing. At the time of my graduation, just prior to it, I had an invitation to go to a yachting events at the request of the president of the university (University of South Alabama). You see, when I was in nursing school, my date to the prom was (17:00) Jay Cooper, who became the mayor of Prichard, Alabama. I ended up marrying his brother who was General Gary Cooper, who became the Commissioner of Pensions and Security for the State of Alabama which was a first. So, I had a lot of opportunities that other people didn&#039 ; t. One was we would go out on the university&#039 ; s yacht, and so my graduation was important, they wanted to make that public. So I did get my masters with a little emphasis. Earlier, because of the things I did after my graduation from nursing, the Mayor of Mobile did present me a gold key to the city which I keep in my safe deposit box. And it is real gold, so I was surprised when I did find out that it was. Carpenter: So then, how did you and your husband end up meeting? Giles: Through his brother (laughing). (18:00) When I was on a prom date with his brother Jay. His brother Jay introduced us because we knew Jay was going to be married,  we were friends he was going to be my date for the prom &#039 ; cause I didn&#039 ; t have anyone. Because I spoke like my white classmates, like those around me when I would call the home of young men that were Black- if their mothers answered they said, (gasp) &quot ; You&#039 ; re dealing with a little white girl and you can&#039 ; t see her.&quot ; They didn&#039 ; t believe that I was Black because of my speech pattern. So it was very difficult for me to date those of my own color. But Jay wasn&#039 ; t afraid, so Jay took me to my prom. Carpenter: And I&#039 ; m curious, you said you got your Masters in Education? Giles: Educational Media. Carpenter: What led you to that (19:00), that path after coming through nursing school? Giles: When I was teaching, I taught at Providence School of Nursing ; they wouldn&#039 ; t accept me as a student, but it was okay for me to come back as a teacher. And one of the other teachers was in that study, so I decided that I wanted to see what it was like, and I went and I liked it. I loved media. I loved working with equipment, I loved taking it apart ; when I took the test for the military, they said I should be an airplane mechanic or a doctor. I didn&#039 ; t choose either of those. Carpenter: Did you think about either of those? Giles: No. I was told to be a nurse from the day I was born, and we all did what our mother, my mother said. Carpenter: And then you mentioned you went on to get a Ph.D.? Giles ; Yes. From the University of Connecticut (20:00), and I got it in Curriculum and Instruction, plus Non-Verbal Communication and Higher Education Administration with my foreign language being Statistics. Carpenter: So you moved around quite a bit, it sounds like, after you left Africatown. Giles: Yeah, I did. Now I live in Hawai&#039 ; i.  Carpenter: How&#039 ; d you end up there? Giles: How did I end up there? When I was a child, I told my parents I was in the wrong place in the wrong time, and I would say to them: I said, &quot ; I have to be near the water,&quot ; and they thought, &quot ; Well, you&#039 ; re near the bay and the river,&quot ; we could hear the ships all the time, my father took me fishing, and they didn&#039 ; t understand it (me) . And when I was nine years old, I heard the word Hawai&#039 ; i, and that it had become a state. And I said, &quot ; That&#039 ; s where I belong, (21:00) I have to be there.&quot ; And I got the name as being the weird child (laughing) of my parents, but I professed all that time, and when I had a daughter I told her all the time that we had to go to Hawai&#039 ; i because I needed to go home. When I got my Ph.D., the way they would announce that you had made it is they would come out and say, &quot ; Dr. Giles, congratulations. Now what will you do?&quot ; And before I could answer, my daughter said, &quot ; We&#039 ; re going to Hawai&#039 ; i.&quot ; And that&#039 ; s what we did.  Carpenter: How old was your daughter then? Giles: She was three. Carpenter: So she was mostly raised in Hawai&#039 ; i, then. Giles: Yeah. Carpenter: And did you come back once you moved there? Did you come back to visit Mobile much at all? Giles: Not very much. The first time I came back was with a grant from the National Endowment for Humanities (22:00), and that was to do research in Mobi- in Africatown, and so I recorded love stories and philosophies of people that were there, and now none of those are there- I still have the tapes, and lots- briefcases- of information that I collected. I didn&#039 ; t do anything with it because after I became injured, and it was just a few years ago that I&#039 ; ve been able to be up and moving and traveling. Carpenter: What-what were you gonna do with that information that you collected? Giles: To write it into a book. Because there were only a few people who at that time were willing to talk and share their stories because they had shared those stories ; and people took it, wrote books, made money from it, and nothing came back, so they were afraid to do it. And my plan was to return the money to the (23:00), to the community. Carpenter: And did you feel like there was more of, kind of, that sense of trust &#039 ; cause you&#039 ; d come from Africatown yourself? Giles: From there, yeah. Carpenter: Yeah. Giles: And I had cousins and things that collected their information, and they wanted to tell their stories, stories that I had never heard. Has anyone told you about the Sandbar? Carpenter: I don&#039 ; t think so, no. Giles: There was a sandbar that the young people would sneak to, or those that engaged or newly married that had to live with their parents, and they told me that ninety percent of the people in Africatown were conceived on the Sandbar. (everyone laughing) So, that&#039 ; s where they would go and my father would loan his car to his nephew and he would go to visit this girl, and they secretly got married (24:00), and her parents didn&#039 ; t know it until she became pregnant because she still lived at home and he still lived with his parents, He went to the military. Except my father who would loan him his car, they(her parents) couldn&#039 ; t understand how they had gotten married and she could conceived a child without them knowing because she was only allowed to go to school and church for choir practice (alone). That&#039 ; s when they would see each other, after choir practice.  Carpenter: So it sounds like you got a lot of good stuff during that research. Giles: Wonderful things, wonderful stories. Carpenter: Yeah. Giles: Wonderful love stories that I had never heard. &#039 ; Cause I only knew my parents love story, and it was a really wonderful one, too. Carpenter: Do you mind sharing it? Are you comfortable? Giles: My father had been married before, and she (his wife) died in childbirth. So, he had seen my mother and was very interested, Once a week he would go to visit (25:00) my grandfather so that he could have just a peek at his beloved Annie, and she would remain in the kitchen, but he could see her from the kitchen (meant living room). And (he) wondered just what it would be like to actually hold her hand. Finally one day, he was allowed to take her out to the water during one of the church picnics, but she was afraid of water and he knew that, so he led her into the water just above her ankles, and he promised her that if she would not say that she would marry him, that he would put his head under the water and he wouldn&#039 ; t come up until he had drowned, and that she would have to then be in the water alone. So she consented to marry him. And she never, ever said that she loved him to anybody until he was dying (26:00). And then she said &quot ; I loved him all those years, but I never said it! I just said, &#039 ; He worked his roots and frightened me into consenting to marry him.&#039 ; &quot ; And that&#039 ; s the way we thought it was. But he agreed not to teach us to swim because of her fear, and he agreed not to teach us the Native American ways or to eat wild foods because she didn&#039 ; t want us to become little wild Native American kids. Because she thought it was tough enough to be a descendant of one minority, but to have the practices and be the descendants of two minorities would be too difficult.  Carpenter: So did you know much of your Native American family growing up? Giles: I knew the family. Carpenter: Okay. Giles: But not allowed to have the practices. Carpenter: `Okay, okay. And were you close with them? Giles: Very close, very close. Especially my Aunt Rita (27:00), and across the street was my father&#039 ; s first cousin which was Mommee, so Mommee was another mother. My grandmother on my mother&#039 ; s side was Mommee, and then we had a lot of Momma, like Momma Rosie. So, all of these were my mothers, which was kinda difficult as a child because you didn&#039 ; t get away with anything. And when you did do something wrong, that lady would catch you and spank you and then take you to your mother, and then you got a spanking for making that woman have to stop her day to spank you and bring you home, and then you got another one for doing wrong. So it was horrible, having so many mothers. But now I see it was very wonderful. And that was one of the reasons I wanted my daughter to grow up in Hawai&#039 ; i because every woman is your auntie (28:00) and every man is your uncle, so she had just as many eyes on her.  Carpenter: So is that community that you kind of found in Hawai&#039 ; i, is that similar to the community that you had growing up in Africatown? Giles: Very similar. The teachings are very similar, the sayings and the practices are very similar because they&#039 ; re considered Native Americans as well. Carpenter: And is that part of what really drew you to- I mean, did you know that, that going there that that was gonna be part of what you would find? That similarity? Giles: No, I just knew it was home, and I needed to go home. Carpenter: And so as, you know, you&#039 ; ve been moving around and kind of had your, you know, life in Hawai&#039 ; i, did you stay in touch with your classmates at all during that time from Mobile County Training School? Giles: Just Anderson, and later I found Christine and Sandra, but it was through the community. Yeah, through the (29:00) MCTS newsletters and communications that were received. Carpenter: And so, what I guess is it like for you to be back here now, and what does this weekend mean to you? Giles: It&#039 ; s wonderful. It&#039 ; s wonderful seeing everybody. I was hesitant because I thought no one would recognize me and I wouldn&#039 ; t recognize them. But I did, and so I&#039 ; m so excited, yeah. It&#039 ; s great being back, you know, and hugging and just holding the people that I was so close to for eighteen years of my life. Carpenter: And you went to the prom here, right? That- the first prom? Giles: Yes, yeah.  Carpenter: What was that like? Giles: With Anderson Flen. Carpenter: Yeah, he told us, he told us. Giles: It was wonderful, but Anderson was so into philosiphying that he sat and watched this fountain and philosiphied the whole time (30:00). We only had one dance. Carpenter: (laughing) So, um, what does it mean then being back in the same building now fifty years later for the reunion? Giles: Um, it&#039 ; s wonderful. My uncle was the bellhop here from age- I think it was fifteen- to the day he died. And he, he was Creole (black + French), most of the women in my family have last French names. I actually have married a man from Paris, but it was a Japanese arranged marriage in Hawai&#039 ; i. It&#039 ; s my second marriage. So it&#039 ; s great to be back ; I wish I could see my uncle here and see him working, but I can&#039 ; t, but it&#039 ; s wonderful to have the memories (31:00), and to be in a place that I would not have been allowed in in earlier years of my life. Carpenter: Mhm. Um, great, well I don&#039 ; t want to take up too much of your time, I don&#039 ; t know if there&#039 ; s anything you wanted to add at all about, I mean I&#039 ; m sure you have so many more stories from the research you&#039 ; ve done and stuff that you&#039 ; ve heard growing up. Giles: I have lots of wonderful stories but I think it&#039 ; s better now that I can look back on it. As a kid, I just knew it was, everybody was too strict and too- too much watching us- but looking back, it was wonderful growing up being secure, not having the fears that kids can have now, and just knowing you were loved. I, I- we grew up (32:00) by other standards as being poor, but we all thought we were wealthy. We thought that we were very, very wealthy. And now I know we were- it may not have been money, but we were prosperous. Carpenter: In what way? Giles: In the family connections, in the life we had, in the love and being a part of the whole. It was always said that if one can eat, all can eat. Our doors were never locked. My father would fish: the first fish went to widows, older women, then older men, then women with children and no husband. We got the tiny little bony fish, but we were convinced that those were the best fish because they were small, and they were sweeter. But in fact (33:00) they were the only leftovers. But everybody would eat, and because our door was not locked, when we ate there were two little boys that came in the door every morning and said to my mother, &quot ; Grits?&quot ; and they were fed, and anybody who walked in was fed. And I think that that was wonderful. And now where I live in Hawai&#039 ; i, they say there&#039 ; s always a space at our table, there&#039 ; s always room for one more, even if you have to sleep on the floor. Just like at home, there&#039 ; s always room for one more. And so, I live in love as I lived in love. Now I live in what&#039 ; s called Aloha, where you share your breath, and if to share your breath, which is your ha, your spirit. That was how I grew up, sharing your spirit. Carpenter: And so, I&#039 ; m curious also (34:00) this, this research you that you did about people&#039 ; s love stories, if you have- if you&#039 ; re planning on doing anything with everything that you collected. Giles: I just sold my house, my land, and everything, with the purpose of dedicating myself to writing and quilting because my mother was a quilter. Carpenter: But you&#039 ; re gonna stay in Hawai&#039 ; i? Is that your plan? Giles: I&#039 ; m going to stay in Hawai&#039 ; i. I love Hawai&#039 ; i, and now I just have two homes. And I have an Ohana, which is a Hawai&#039 ; i family, and I love them just as much as I love my birth family. It&#039 ; s great to have two homes. Carpenter: Yeah. Alright. Well, unless you have anything else to add? Giles: Well, I could talk on and on, but I know there are others you must interview, so I look forward to sharing written documents (35:00) with you if you so wish? Carpenter: Yes, that&#039 ; d be great, and we can give you actually our contact information so we can be in touch.  Giles: Okay. That would be wonderful, and thank you for this opportunity, and thank you for doing this.  Carpenter: Yeah. Thank you for your time, this was awesome.  video 0 https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile= Sort Priority This field allows you to determine the object order in your gallery. This plugin is designed to work only with the Philly theme. 0004 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Gloria Giles Nault Subject The topic of the resource Hawaii Nursing. 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Examples include paintings, drawings, graphic designs, plans and maps. Recommended best practice is to assign the type Text to images of textual materials. Original Format The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data Photos Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Home Page Carousel Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource October 2017 Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Chie Sakakibara Type The nature or genre of the resource Photos https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/5dbe16458192a39ea021827b39dc889a.png f6fd49e60ff3ea1ddf0cda4f20a1fe7c Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Nathan Carpenter Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Horace Gill OHMS Object This field contain the OHMS Hyperlink (link to the XML file withing the OHMS Viewer). https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=A_Horace_Gill.xml OHMS Object Text This field contains the OHMS Index and/or Transcript and is what make the contents of the OHMS object searchable in Omeka. 5.4 Horace Gill 39:53 Africatown January 2023 Oberlin College Library Horace Gill Nathan Carpenter 1:|19(14)|31(13)|42(7)|53(12)|64(12)|73(7)|89(11)|112(2)|124(11)|132(7)|148(2)|164(5)|174(4)|184(8)|193(6)|210(10)|230(11)|243(10)|251(2)|261(8)|276(4)|291(1)|301(1)|314(10)|326(3)|336(1)|344(10)|356(9)|365(11)|374(5)|388(15)|399(14)|407(15)|420(3)|432(5)|441(1)|455(15)|464(3)|478(15) 0 https://youtu.be/7UXTacpIsoU YouTube video 0 Introduction at the Reunion We was the first class to be integrated and to go in places which was open to all mankind. So we was very excited, it was the first one in history not to have the prom at the high school. Gill talks about the importance of the reunion, senior prom, and introduces MCTS's legacy. Anderson ; Battle House Hotel ; Cleon Jones ; Integration ; Larry Shields ; Prom ; Reunion ; Tommie Agee Childhood ; Community. ; Education. ; Family. ; Mobile County Training School ; Segregation. ; US Air Force 295 Crenshaw Family Legacy The Crenshaw family was very well known in the community and neighborhood. We contributed a lot to the neighborhood. I remember when my grandfather used to have a vegetable truck, and go around the neighborhood selling vegetables and different things on his vehicle. Gill talks about his family's history in Africatown: his grandfather's vegetable truck, his family members in the military, and his father's union. 1965 Segregation Act ; Africatown ; Crenshaw ; Economy ; Grace Agee ; grandfather ; Horace ; Joe Womack ; Vegetable truck ; Vespa ; William Crenshaw Community ; FBI ; Green Berets ; Leadership. ; Magazine Point (Mobile, Ala.) ; Military. ; Mobile (Ala.) ; Mobile County Training School ; Nursing. ; Plateau (Mobile, Ala.) ; Prichard (Ala.) ; Strike. ; US Air Force ; Vietnam War 618 From &quot ; Plateau&quot ; to &quot ; Africatown&quot ; They changed the name to Africatown in...must've been in the 70s. Cause they used to call it -- oh! Like Prichard and Mobile area, that's what they used to call it. Plateau. Gill remembers the neighborhood's name change. Africatown ; Change ; name ; Plateau Mobile (Ala.) ; Plateau (Mobile, Ala.) ; Prichard (Ala.) 690 Air Force Career Path I used to be a firefighter, that was my first career field. My second career field was communication, and with the communication and I was actually putting up all cable and telephones and all that. And my third career field, I was a jack mechanic. I actually worked on the C-5 aircraft. Gill talks about his transformative career in the Air Force working in multiple job fields. Accomplishment ; apprenticeship ; Base ; C-5 aircraft ; Combat ; criminal intelligence ; Desert Shield ; Desert Storm ; Firefighter ; Foundation ; mechanic ; training ; Veteran ; Vietnam Communication. ; Desert Shield, Operation, 1990-199 ; Desert Storm, Operation, 1991 ; Education. ; FBI ; History. ; Military. ; US Air Force ; Vietnam War 1012 Keeping in Touch Like Anderson, I talk to him probably a couple times a month. He always email people and kind of makes you talk, *laughs* kind of keep in touch with the whole class. Gill talks about keeping in touch with his MCTS classmates. Anderson ; Career ; Class president ; contact ; MCTS Classmates ; Mobile County Training School 1075 Traveling on the Job *laughs* I have lived some of everywhere. I moved to Texas probably three years ago. Before then I was living in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Before then, California. I was in the Bay Area -- that's where my last military job was. Gill talks about moving around the country and the world throughout his career. Albuquerque ; Amsterdam ; Bay Area ; Benefits ; California ; Civil service ; Fort Hood ; Germany ; Harker Heights ; Korea ; New Mexico ; TDY ; Temporary Duty ; Texas ; Vietnam Military. ; Travel. 1242 Meeting his Wife Oh, I actually met my wife in Oakland, California. And we was at a McDonalds, *laughs* and then I kind of talked to her, got her number, and then called her up and we kind of dated for a year, and then we got married. Gill talks about meeting his wife, traveling, and settling down with her at the end of his career. Albuquerque ; Balloon Festival ; Fire Chief ; Oakland ; Wife Marriage. ; Retirement. ; Travel. ; US Air Force 1385 Close-knit Communities See, growing up then, it was like a family. Everybody knew each other ; you didn't lock your doors, you kept your doors unlocked. Everybody on the street, even...they can discipline you, they can...they see you're doing something, they'll say -- they'll discipline you and say, &quot ; I'm gonna tell your grandfather.&quot ; Gill talks about the family-like communities while growing up in Africatown, working in the military, and when living in Albuquerque. Albuquerque ; Anderson ; Brick stone work ; Care ; Close-knit ; Closeness ; Cora Coleman ; Crenshaw ; foundation ; Grandfather Classmates ; Community. ; Encouragement. ; Family. ; History. ; Military. ; Mobile County Training School ; Plateau (Mobile, Ala.) ; Relationships. ; Student ; Teacher ; US Air Force 1827 Childhood Role Models He was a great contributor to my life, but my favorite person was my uncle who actually died in Vietnam and he was a captain in the army, but he's such a leadership person and... I mean, he -- he was everything. Gill talks about other family members and friends that served as role models during his childhood. aircrafts ; Dry cleaning ; Gary Simpson ; Joe Womack ; Mr. Leon ; Saul Smith ; Vietnam Childhood ; Education. ; Football. ; Leadership. ; Military. ; Mobile County Training School ; Role models. ; Teacher ; Travel. ; US Air Force 2061 Returning for the Reunion I'm gonna be here to see them. And Anderson put a lot on people's hearts in saying, &quot ; look, we're not gonna live forever, and we need to see each other.&quot ; Gill talks about the importance of the MCTS reunion and seeing old friends. Anderson ; Fifty-year ; Fortunate ; Reunion Classmates ; Retirement. 2185 Teachers at the Reunion I hope Miss McCann will be there. She's been around forever. She taught my mother, my uncles, and everyone. And so when I got to the school, she said, &quot ; I already know you. You know what's coming.&quot ; Gill talks about the coaches and teachers he hopes to see at the reunion. Coach Arden ; Coach Clark ; congressman ; Integration ; Miss McCann ; Prom Family. ; Mobile County Training School ; Teacher 2302 Conclusion To sum it up, it’s a pleasure to gather and assist to pass on the history for years to come, to let the younger generation to come, to let them know that MCTS was the oldest and first black school in the state of Alabama. It contributed a lot of history. Gill talks about the importance of passing down the history of MCTS. African American School ; Alabama ; Appreciation ; Closeness ; Grandkids History. ; Mobile County Training School Oral History Nathan: This is Nathan Carpenter from Oberlin College. I&#039 ; m with Ify Ezimora and Santiago Roman, and we&#039 ; re with Mr. Horace Gill-- Mr. Gill: Horace Gill, yes. Nathan: --Mr. Horace Gill, doing an oral history interview today and I just wanted to state for the record and on video as well that your participation in this interview is completely voluntary, and you&#039 ; re welcome to end the interview at any time. And thank you so much for doing this with us. Mr. Gill: No problem. Nathan: Great, so I guess I was wondering if you could start out by briefly talking about what this reunion means to you, why you&#039 ; ve come back, and what you&#039 ; re looking forward to this weekend. Mr. Gill: Well it means a lot -- this will be my first reunion. I didn&#039 ; t get a chance to make the other ones because I was in the military and also worked for the government, so this is sort of important because it was a historical (01:00) class to us. You know? We was kind of together for a long time, and we was the first class after integration and segregation to actually attend our prom night right here in this hotel. And we kind of wrote that history also of the school to be left for people down the line -- younger generation -- to get some of that history. The things that those classes -- and our class -- went through. And that&#039 ; s why it&#039 ; s very important to me, becoming participating and to make this very successful for you guys also. Nathan: Can you talk a little bit about that prom and what that was like for you at the time? As a...you were a senior in high school? Mr. Gill: Yes. It was exciting because it was the first class (02:00) after -- the segregation was in &#039 ; 65, but we was the first class to be integrated and to go in places which was open to all mankind. So we was very excited, it was the first one in history not to have the prom at the high school. So we was the first class to go outside the high school to actually have prom and to be here in the Battle House was a great feeling. I mean, a lot of accomplished men that history brung that it was open for us and we was the first class that went down in history to attend the prom outside. Nathan: And so one thing that we hear a lot from alums that we speak with is how much Mobile County Training School meant to them growing up, and I&#039 ; m curious if that was your experience as well (03:00) and if you could speak to that a little bit. Mr. Gill: Oh yes, definitely! My parents went to the high school. Matter of fact, it was the oldest high school in the whole state of Alabama and founded in the 1870s. And all my aunts and uncles graduated from that high school, so it was one of the well-known high schools around, because we only had like four or five here. And it&#039 ; s kind of like a family. Everybody knew -- even though you went to another high school, everybody knew each other and so all of my relatives and uncles and... It was a lot of history there. And further down the line I&#039 ; m gonna be talking and give you a little bit more into the history even though my family and one of the families that&#039 ; s well-known in the city of Prichard, or Mobile, you know? And so, like Anderson, his family, (04:00) we all knew each other. We was just like a whole big family community. But for the school not to exist no more as a high school, it was a lot of history at that school. So we had a lot of professional football players came from that high school, professional baseball players like Tommie Agee, Cleon Jones, Larry Shields. They played professional, and we had some academic people that worked for one of the first colonels in the Air Force that graduated from a couple of classes before me. And her job was over all the nursing in the United States Air Force, you know, so it was a lot of accomplishment came from that school. Nathan: So you mentioned you were talking about your family and their history with the community. Did you want to go more into that? (05:00) Mr. Gill: Oh yeah, my family was the Crenshaw family -- it&#039 ; s a big family. My grandfather, he actually came -- his grandfather -- I mean, his father lived to be 113 years old. His dad actually came over on one of the last slave ships that was docked here. In one of the last slave ships that was found here -- he came over on one of those, and besides that, my family contributed a lot to the military. And, matter of fact, I had an uncle, he got killed in 1953 in the largest plane crash of the Air Force. 230 people got killed, and my mother had another brother which was William Crenshaw, (06:00) and he died -- he was a captain, green beret, and he actually got killed in the army also. And her third brother actually, he was in the Air Force and he passed away. So it was a lot of history of that contribution to the military. And myself, I spent 25 years in the Air Force, and I actually worked as a criminal intelligence for one of the guys who&#039 ; s one of the FBI directors -- ex-FBI director who&#039 ; s doing an investigation now. Mr. Gill (Addendum 6/24/2020): So I used to work under his operation on the west coast before he became director of the FBI at the headquarters in Washington DC, so a lot of history from the beginning when he was special prosecutor and he rose up to be director of the FBI. He contributed a lot to the government and to the country. And to see where we are today and all we have accomplished from the beginning, so we&#039 ; re gonna maintain that history. The leadership that I received under his leadership and the United States Air Force. Mr. Gill: That&#039 ; s what gave me the leadership that I (07:00) didn&#039 ; t have to enlist in the military, but I figure I&#039 ; m supposed to contribute something Mr. Gill (Addendum 6/24/2020): ...back to the community and the school which I graduated from, which was Mobile County Training High School . And so my grandfather was very well-known in the community and neighborhood. Our family was an original family that settled in the community of Plateau, Alabama, which is Africatown now, Magazine is another community, and Prichard, Alabama. The Crenshaw family was very well known in the community and neighborhood. We contributed a lot to the neighborhood. I remember when my grandfather used to have a vegetable truck, and go around the neighborhood selling vegetables and different things on his vehicle. He gave out credit to the neighborhood and sometimes donated food to the neighborhood. He always collected less than he contributed. He retired from Scott Paper Mill in the 80s, after that, that&#039 ; s when he took on the job of selling vegetables, and that was mostly to help the community out. He had three sons, which all served in the military. His first son named Horace, he was killed in the largest plane crash in 1953, when 280 military soldiers died in Japan, when the airplane was taking off. His second son died in Vietnam in 1967 and he was a captain in the United States army in the Green Beret. We happened to read his will and knew he wasn&#039 ; t coming back. The third son, he served in the US Air Force, and he has passed away since, several years ago. My grandmother, she died at the age of 69 after the first two sons died. They said she never recovered from the stress from the both sons who died. (08:00) That is why we were a very close knitted community, most of all the students that grew up together and graduated together, and some that came back and became teachers at the same school. Some went to professional sports. And one young lady, named Grace Agee, she was a one star general in the Air Force, she became the head of the nursing program in the US Air Force. Mr. Gill: And so my grandfather was very well known in the area. Everybody knew him. I mean, he had a vespa truck, he used to go all around the neighborhood and just give out food and stuff, you know? He didn&#039 ; t ever collect that much money, he was retired from Scott Paper mill, and that was one of the largest paper mills in the city here. And on my father&#039 ; s side, he worked for International Paper Company, and my father actually was a union leader, which was -- I think he was the president of the union, and Joe Womack&#039 ; s (09:00) father was also... And they made a lot of changes. They went on strike to demand equal rights, you know, during that time. After the 1965 Segregation Act was passed that demanded fair wages and the same wages. So that strike for nine days not only helped his family, which was us, plus he had the community and the whole southern states of the South, which was Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, and... I&#039 ; mma say Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Tennessee that was the southern craft paper company, which was international and which brung wages up to the average wage of about $40,000 a year. Which not only (10:00) helped the economy here, but, you know, was a great change for all the family life. Parents worked over there, so there was a lot of accomplishment there. Nathan: And you said this was your grandfather who had that vegetable truck you were talking about? Mr. Gill: Yes. Nathan: Was that in Africatown? Mr. Gill: Yes. He used to be all over there in Africatown. During that time, they called it... Let&#039 ; s see...I had a date but... They changed the name to Africatown in...must&#039 ; ve been in the 70s. Cause they used to call it -- oh! Like Prichard and Mobile area, that&#039 ; s what they used to call it. Plateau. They used to call it Plateau. P-L-A-T-E-A-U. And they actually, when I came back from overseas, (11:00) they actually changed the name to Africatown, so... Nathan: So you grew up knowing it as Plateau? Mr. Gill: Yeah. It was Plateau for years and years, and I guess after -- I came back from Vietnam in &#039 ; 69 -- no, &#039 ; 70. And they had a change. You know, coming back to your area, cause I stayed gone almost six or seven years. And when I came back, they had changed the name. Nathan: Did you see combat in Vietnam? Mr. Gill: Oh yes. Yes. I&#039 ; m a veteran of three wars, so I actually seen Vietnam, Desert Storm, and Desert Shield. Nathan: Can you talk a little bit -- you mentioned there&#039 ; s a really, kind of strong military history in your family and you&#039 ; re also a veteran as well -- kind of what that has (12:00) meant for you, or what it meant for you growing up versus what it means for you now. Mr. Gill: I encourage -- it meant a lot to me, you know, I think it&#039 ; s an experience that I think every young man should have a choice to...just to see what it is and to be a part of a military family. It&#039 ; s not according to me, it&#039 ; s to what you go in. The Air Force is more education, you know, when you actually get out the Air Force after four years, you automatically have a &#039 ; a degree&#039 ; from the university of the Air Force. And in the army, it&#039 ; s more like ground accomplishment. But it&#039 ; s such a big change in the military, you can see they kind of operate (13:00) like a city within a city. And so actually, people can actually go on that base and never have to come off cause everything you need on that is there. They have Chili&#039 ; s restaurants, they have Outbacks on the base, they have hotels like Holiday Inn&#039 ; s and all that. That is around, by the base, by the military. And so when I first went in, it was more of a combat atmosphere, but now it&#039 ; s -- the Air Force is something like a college atmosphere. But the army, everybody says the Air Force is kind of spoiled brats, you know? We probably are, but I think it&#039 ; s whatever your goal is and what you looking for, and I think it can give you some foundation, and that&#039 ; s what it actually gave me. Foundation. Cause I actually went in when I was seventeen, and I think it was a great experience (14:00) I ever had, because I ended up with -- I used to be a firefighter, that was my first career field. My second career field was communication, and with the communication and I was actually putting up all cable and telephones and all that. And my third career field, I was a jack mechanic. I actually worked on the C-5 aircraft. During that time, it was the largest plane in the world, so... And my fourth career field was criminal intelligence, which I went back to Quantico -- the FBI academy -- for eight weeks of schooling and doing different things. From 9/11. That&#039 ; s when 9/11 happened. It was a great experience for me, even in combat situations in Vietnam, it was just like (15:00) we was mostly supporting aircrafts -- fighting planes and fire protection for the base there. We&#039 ; d never get hit by fighter pilots, by rockets, by bombs, anything like that. And then the same thing, Desert Storm, Desert Shield. So we worked as a group with the combat group. And the last job I had as a criminal intelligence and I was actually working with the different law enforcement on the team -- consists of different agencies, with the military and with the Air Force and army. So, yeah. Nathan: And so is that -- it was right after you graduated from Mobile County Training School? Mr. Gill: When I graduated from Mobile County Training, my first job was a firefighter. Nathan: Okay. Mr. Gill: Yeah, and I did that almost five years. Nathan: And then you went into the Air Force? (16:00) Mr. Gill: No, no, that was-- Nathan: Within the Air Force? Mr. Gill: Yes. That was the job in the Air Force. Air Force is a technical branch of service, so whatever your career field is, you have to go to school for it. And so, actually from the school, then you go perform on your job. And actually on your job, you have to go through apprenticeship, you have to go through a specialist, and you have to go through a supervisor. Of course, you constantly have to go back and forth to school. And so, I was an instructor...two years for the Air Force fire protection school, and so all I did was, people come in straight from the base to training, they come to the school there and learn firefighting, and then they go to the base. Wherever they&#039 ; re stationed at. Nathan: And did you keep in touch with your classmates as you kind of moved into your career? Mr. Gill: I kept in touch with some of them (17:00), and every time we came back home I ran across some of my classmates. And I actually -- it was like four of five of us went in together, and every time we came home we made contact with each other and kind of find each other through the career...probably about twenty years. And we see &#039 ; em, you know, talk. Like Anderson, I talk to him probably a couple times a month. He always email people and kind of makes you talk, *laughs* kind of keep in touch with the whole class. He was kind of the glue of the whole class, keeping everybody together. And he was actually the class president and he was the -- kind of that same leadership role he used to do, he&#039 ; s making sure that all this happened. And he actually put all the people together. Nathan: So how&#039 ; d you end up living in Texas? Mr. Gill: *laughs* I have lived some of everywhere. (18:00) I moved to Texas probably three years ago. Before then I was living in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Before then, California. I was in the Bay Area -- that&#039 ; s where my last military job was. I was actually working in the federal building of San Francisco. It was military and civil service, so I kind of moved around every chance I got, so even in my military career, I probably was station from Korea to Germany to Vietnam to -- back to Germany. Been in Amsterdam, been to...I was TDY a lot. TDY means &#039 ; temporary duty&#039 ; . And temporary duty is anything under six months. So my specialist, (19:00) they kind of moved me around a lot. So they sent me here and sent me there, you know? And actually, when they was bringing computers up -- upgrading computers on the base -- I was with a team doing that also. So they would call, you know, the cap five and all that stuff. So we was actually doing that, so that&#039 ; s how I got a chance to move around a lot. But when I actually got out, California got too hot, so I moved to Albuquerque. And when I moved there in 2005, probably the population was two hundred and fifty thousand and I seen it grow to...you know, a million people, so one morning I said, &quot ; it&#039 ; s too crowded here now, let&#039 ; s move.&quot ; So we moved to Texas. Small town called Harker Heights, next to Fort Hood. You ever heard of Fort Hood? Largest base in the world -- actually over twenty thousand troops. (20:00) And so most of the army deployed people from that base, you know, and they go on missions. Nathan: Is that part of why you decided to be in that area? Mr. Gill: Well, my benefits. See, when you retire from the military, you get benefits the rest of your life, so either on the base or either off the base. But a lot of the benefits you have is shopping on the base, doing different things on the base. You get that lifetime, and it saves a lot of money, so you actually probably saving fifty percent versus shopping outside the base, so... Nathan: And so when you were doing all this travelling around and the short term jobs throughout your run, was your wife coming with you to all those different jobs? Mr. Gill: Sometimes she did, sometimes she didn&#039 ; t. To the friendly areas, yes, to the non-friendly, (21:00) no she wasn&#039 ; t allowed. But she did a lot of travelling. Lots of travelling. Nathan: How did y&#039 ; all end up meeting? Mr. Gill: Hm? Nathan: How did you and your wife end up meeting? Mr. Gill: Oh, I actually met my wife in Oakland, California. And we was at a McDonalds, *laughs* and then I kind of talked to her, got her number, and then called her up and we kind of dated for a year, and then we got married. She had never been out -- you know, she&#039 ; s an Oakland person, she&#039 ; d never been outside of the state of California. And I started taking her places, and she actually had a chance to see what life was in the Air Force. And then, when I got out, retired (22:00) from the Air Force, I worked for the department of the army as a fire chief. I was a fire chief for the local government base, and they closed the base down after probably about fifteen years and I retired again. During that time, they closed about probably fifty percent of the bases in California. And they gave me a chance to retire a second time, and I said, &quot ; let&#039 ; s move.&quot ; And so we ended up in Albuquerque, a beautiful city. Beautiful. You ever heard of the balloon festival? Oh yeah, ten thousand balloons in the sky at one time. That&#039 ; s actually two weeks -- every October, from the first to the fifteenth of October, you can see all shapes, all types, all balloons representing all the countries. They actually come and it&#039 ; s a big event, but after that it got too crowded, (23:00) so we&#039 ; re in a small town now. Nathan: To kind of go back, I&#039 ; ve been curious in you talking about, for example, your grandfather&#039 ; s vegetable truck and then also talking about what that community in the military meant to you as well. And so I&#039 ; m curious if from your youth in Plateau or your experience at Mobile County Training School, if there are other examples of that community there that stood out to you kind of like that vegetable truck. Mr. Gill: Yeah, like the history of my grandfather, I used to observe him doing a lot of things. He was a lot of a people person, you know? He really liked people and back then your work meant a lot. As a kid growing up, I used to observe a lot and I hung around my grandfather a lot just to...he did all kinds of stone work. He used to, on the side, (24:00) besides working at the paper mill and running the vegetable truck, he used to do a lot of brick stone work. You know, like foundation work. And then I used to be with him a lot and just ride with him on the vegetable truck, and how people come up and, &quot ; Oh, Mr. Crenshaw, I don&#039 ; t have no money today but I would love to have this or that.&quot ; And he said, &quot ; get it.&quot ; And everybody paid on their honesty, you know? You didn&#039 ; t keep no books or nothing, and then they actually...but everybody knew him. See, growing up then, it was like a family. Everybody knew each other ; you didn&#039 ; t lock your doors, you kept your doors unlocked. Everybody on the street, even...they can discipline you, they can...they see you&#039 ; re doing something, they&#039 ; ll say -- they&#039 ; ll discipline you and say, &quot ; I&#039 ; m gonna tell your grandfather.&quot ; &quot ; I&#039 ; m gonna tell your mother.&quot ; &quot ; I&#039 ; m gonna tell your dad.&quot ; And so it was a (25:00) close-knitted community, and everybody looked out for each other. Today, you have a neighbor, you don&#039 ; t even know &#039 ; em for the whole time you&#039 ; re there, but see back then it wasn&#039 ; t like that. It was just like we all was one big family. And I think that&#039 ; s -- after years, I look at, observe my kids now ; that is not there. I know I raised them like that, but it&#039 ; s not there, it&#039 ; s just a whole different time, you know? But I want them to see what it was like back then and how people cared about each other. How, if we needed -- if anybody needed anything, they&#039 ; d come over and say, &quot ; could I borrow some flour?&quot ; or some sugar, or some...whatever, you know? You had it. It was there. &quot ; Can I get a couple of dollars?&quot ; That&#039 ; s the way it operated. And my mother &#039 ; nem, it was (26:00) -- let me see... It was actually nine of them, and she only had three brothers and she lost all of them, and the sisters. And they was very close. They always looked out for each other, and that&#039 ; s the same way today. And in my family, it was eight people: four boys and four girls. And you see it there, but it&#039 ; s not like it used to be. And so people can see the kind of close-knitted history. Even in the school there -- at Mobile County Training High School -- it was the same atmosphere. The teachers was like your parents. I mean, what they said, you knew they look out for your best. And close-knit, the students were close-knitted. That&#039 ; s why when I went just to see (27:00)-- I knew...I hadn&#039 ; t seen Anderson three years, I think, but I knew him right away. And we was talking and he said, &quot ; come on, let me show you something.&quot ; Some of my classmates I haven&#039 ; t seen in fifty years. Fifty years. I have talked to some of them, but I haven&#039 ; t seen some of them in fifty years. And I ended up in the Air Force with some of my classmates. Now that&#039 ; s very small. Actually, a young lady named Cora Coleman, she was actually stationed with me at Travis Air Force base in California, so I say what a small world, you know? We grew up together. So some of my classmates actually got out the military and actually live in Sacramento, in the Bay Area now, so... It was a very close-knitted community. That&#039 ; s what my grandfather -- kind of the foundation that he laid. I mean, everybody knew him. (28:00) And they knew the good for him. You know, so he helped everybody, so that was something that encouraged me to be the same way, and today I try to help people. Me and my wife, we&#039 ; ve taken in a family in Albuquerque. We looked at &#039 ; em on TV, during the news when they said a family needed some help, and so we just like...adopted those kids, and they became a part of our life. And right today they actually grown kids now, they call up, &quot ; hi grandpa, how are you?&quot ; You know, and we still talk, they come to visit, and that&#039 ; s what it&#039 ; s all about, you know? And that&#039 ; s one thing the military did. The military...you didn&#039 ; t feel no racial or nothing. It&#039 ; s always been like that, the military. It&#039 ; s like a big family, (29:00) and we felt the closeness in the military, we could... I mean, it&#039 ; s there. That&#039 ; s why I love the atmosphere, that&#039 ; s why I always -- they had to put me out. That&#039 ; s how much I liked it, so... And it&#039 ; s a pattern today, if people just knew how the military really operates and the closeness and the family, and what the uniform means to each other, you know? Not what some people think it does. It&#039 ; s an atmosphere that helped people to live together, you know? And you can grow as a big family. And then me -- someone [whose] family is at home and they&#039 ; re overseas, we take them people in, we kind of look after them. We call them up, like right today, my next door neighbor, (30:00) her husband is a warrant officer. We took to them just like that and we started watching out for &#039 ; em. I email them right now, when I&#039 ; m here, and say, &quot ; hey, how&#039 ; s everything going?&quot ; Her husband is going to leave, going overseas coming up January. I said, &quot ; hey, we got the girls. We&#039 ; ll take -- you know, you need to do something...&quot ; But that&#039 ; s the family life there, so it&#039 ; s a great feeling. Nathan: Real quickly, I don&#039 ; t wanna keep you too long ; I&#039 ; m curious if there are other people you remember from your childhood that were kind of like your grandfather -- kind of had this big presence in the community and everybody knew them. You were mentioning teachers as well, and if there&#039 ; s anyone who kind of comes to mind who played that kind of role. Mr. Gill: Oh yes, one guy named Mr. Leon up the street from me. He took to me. He was an Air Force guy. He was Chief Master Sergeant Air Force reserve (31:00), and I used to see him and he had a love for airplanes, and he actually built me a small plane as a kid coming up. And I used to go to his house all the time and he showed me how to... He&#039 ; s very gifted at his hands and he made a lot of aircraft models and tools and things. And I used to listen to him a lot and that was my beginning for the Air Force there cause we used to talk all the time and he was a great person that contributed to my life. And also, I had an uncle who owned several cleaners here -- dry cleaners in Mobile -- and he actually had me working for him. And so I kind of learned the cleaning business and he tried to get me to stay around, but not me. I wanted to travel. All I&#039 ; d seen as a little kid, I wanted to always travel, (32:00) and that was the greatest thing in my mind to do and actually get an education from the military. And that&#039 ; s exactly what happened, so... He was a great contributor to my life, but my favorite person was my uncle who actually died in Vietnam and he was a captain in the army, but he&#039 ; s such a leadership person and... I mean, he -- he was everything. Straight by the books. I mean, from shoe-shining to education -- getting your education and... I mean, he was by the book and he was my biggest example, and so he actually is on the wall with all the soldiers who got killed in Washington D.C. With all the -- I forget what they call (33:00) that wall there, but it was all the soldiers who got killed in Vietnam. His name is up there. But he was a great football player too for Mobile County Training School. He actually played running back and he was injured with four, five broken ribs and he wouldn&#039 ; t be taken out the game. He continued playing, you know, he was just a hard guy. He wasn&#039 ; t that big, but he was very...everything he set out, he accomplished. That was the bottom line. And he was a great football player. Quarterback. I actually played, and several other people -- Joe Womack. You haven&#039 ; t had a chance to meet him yet, right? Nathan: No, we know him. We know Major Joe. Mr. Gill: Yeah, wow. Joe and myself, he&#039 ; s some kin to me on one side, but he was a great leader,(34:00) we was very close coming up. Gary Simpson... I&#039 ; m trying to think -- oh, Saul Smith. You&#039 ; ll get a chance to talk to him. And several other ones, but we was pretty close. Nathan: I guess, to wrap up -- *to Ify and Santi* unless either of you two wants to jump in with something? -- I&#039 ; m curious, you mentioned you haven&#039 ; t seen some folks who might be here in fifty years, and so -- I don&#039 ; t know, if you have like...things you&#039 ; re particularly looking forward to this weekend, or...? Mr. Gill: Just to see people I hadn&#039 ; t seen in a long time, it means a lot because this is not gonna happen again. A fifty year class reunion, because none of us gonna live forever, so... And some of the people we mentioned already that haven&#039 ; t been fortunate enough (35:00) to be here, I miss them, and I wanted to really get a chance to see as many people as I can. Because I know this is not gonna happen again, and maybe it&#039 ; s the beginning of some things too. To make us get together a little bit more than waiting fifty years, ten years, maybe once a year we can get together and have a little outing for the weekend and... We&#039 ; re all retired now, so it&#039 ; s no excuse. But I&#039 ; m really looking forward to seeing them because I missed them for a long time. And I always wanted to come back to a reunion, which I never did until now, and I just made up my mind. I&#039 ; m gonna be here to see them. And Anderson put a lot on people&#039 ; s hearts in saying, &quot ; look, (36:00) we&#039 ; re not gonna live forever, and we need to see each other.&quot ; And he does not let you say &quot ; no&quot ; too much. So I appreciate him for kind of being a still the glue person, still bringing us together in closeness, and...a lot to celebrate. Nathan: I&#039 ; m sorry, I thought of one more thing. I think that some of your teachers are going to be here this weekend as well? Mr. Gill: Yes. Nathan: I&#039 ; m curious if... Mr. Gill: I heard that coach Arden is going to be there, and I heard that...somebody else, I think is going to be there... I hope Miss McCann will be there. She&#039 ; s been around forever. She taught my mother, my uncles, and everyone. And so when I got to the school, she said, &quot ; I already know you. (37:00) You know what&#039 ; s coming.&quot ; She said, &quot ; I don&#039 ; t want to see you in this office.&quot ; So she kind of kept the family straight too. Coach Arden, he was the person responsible for us actually having our prom here fifty years ago. He was responsible. Because he actually -- it was during, you know, the integration and everything. A lot was going on, and he came down here and demanded. And that was successful. So I&#039 ; m glad he&#039 ; s here, cause we was the first class to come out of the atmosphere on our campus there and have a prom, and he&#039 ; s come to be here. Fifty years of history. And I seen one other teacher with Ellison, probably -- I forgot...Coach...Coach Clark. (38:00) He&#039 ; s not here now, but he was a congressman here. He actually passed away about a year ago, but I actually got a chance to see him when I was here before, a few years ago. Two or three years ago, and I&#039 ; d seen him and I was...I felt real good. And...that&#039 ; s about it. Nathan: Well thank you so much for your time, Mr. Gill. Yeah, I think we&#039 ; re good. Mr. Gill: You want some more, I got it. *laughs* I&#039 ; m just kidding. Nathan: Do you have more? Mr. Gill: No, I&#039 ; m -- you know, that&#039 ; s about it, just closeness and...I appreciate what you all are doing. And this means a lot down the line that maybe one day my kids can see all this. My grandkids. And actually understand about the history of the school. Just for the school to be there at all (39:00) and it was the first Black -- I mean, African American school in the state of Alabama, so...that&#039 ; s a lot of history there. So I appreciate what you all have done to help serve this history and to...you know, it&#039 ; s not easy coming somewhere after Thanksgiving, but were you here? Nathan: No, we came in this morning. Mr. Gill: Oh, okay. But I just want to say thank you to you guys. Nathan: Thank you. Mr. Gill (Addendum 6/24/2020): To sum it up, it&#039 ; s a pleasure to gather and assist to pass on the history for years to come, to let the younger generation to come, to let them know that MCTS was the oldest and first black school in the state of Alabama. It contributed a lot of history. It&#039 ; s called Mobile County Training high School because it was a training school that provided everything a person needed to start in life. We had some great teachers and principles that passed through. All of my family passed through MCTS, my mother, father, aunts, etc. I appreciate the fact that you all are helping to prepare and reserve this history. video 0 https://oberlincollegelibrary.org/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=A_Horace_Gill.xml A_Horace_Gill.xml Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Horace Gill Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource video https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/ceef7fd71479b57edbfba246fe0c007f.png f6fd49e60ff3ea1ddf0cda4f20a1fe7c Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Horace Gill Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Horace Gill https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/e670d40e0765a3ea76f2b31f87ea859f.png 0277b626e81cee29829a34f44c264210 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Howard Sinclair Description An account of the resource Self Image Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Howard Sinclair https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/ea1e868990614719c1ee2bf02c72ce86.jpg 0838211624d3d6d0c556fd4abb7851ad Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ifunanya “Ify” Ezimora Subject The topic of the resource Ifunanya “Ify” Ezimora Description An account of the resource Self-Image Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Ifunanya “Ify” Ezimora https://africatown.oberlincollegelibrary.org/files/original/7a13427fc923998692c1a563c30e7158.JPG 7fa8d8be6d7d8c29c008a64812275bf6 Person An individual. Biographical Text Initially, I helped to conduct and transcribe oral history interviews during the first year or so on the project. For my second year, I've been helping Pastor Tucker create a series of paintings about the formation of Africatown and painting portraits of past community members. Being a part of this relationship with Africatown has been the most important part of my experience at Oberlin; I've learned so much about community and the importance of history, and I truly feel invited into a loving and joyful family. Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Imani Badillo oberlin student